Interview with Mark Riddick

On Thursday, January 19th of 2017 I recorded an interview with Mark Riddick, a local artist who specializes in the gory world of underground death metal and black metal artwork. He’s been creating his illustrations of horror and decay since 1991 and he just released his newest art book (more on that in the interview). I highly recommend you follow his Facebook account and/or Instagram account as he regularly posts his new and old work there. Be sure to check out his band’s lyric video at the end of this post that features his artwork. For now, you can download the 29 minute interview as an mp3 here, stream it below by pressing the orange play button, or just read it (my words are in bold). Even if you listen I highly recommend reading along as I’ve inserting several of his images we discuss throughout this post and, simply put, they look awesome.

This is Metal Chris of DCHeavyMetal.com and for this interview I’ve got Northern Virginia based heavy metal artist Mark Riddick with me. If you’re a metal head then you’ve probably seen his artwork as album covers, merchandise and logos at some point. Bands from Morbid Angel to The Black Dahlia Murder to Absu to Arsis have all commissioned his work before and even more mainstream places like Dethklok from the Cartoon Network have used his artwork. Doomentia Press published Mark’s newest art book, Morbid Visions: The Art Of Mark Riddick [order it here]. Now to get things started here Mark, what vision for this book did you have when you started putting it together?

First of all, thanks for the generous intro. The Morbid Visions book, it probably started about two years ago that I took it on. I published a book through Doomentia Press probably about four or five years ago and that was called Compendium Of Death and that had about 20 years worth of illustration work from the early ’90s up to about 2011 in one giant book so it’s about [a] 600 page tome. That was released and it did pretty well. It sold out in about four months. Over several years I had compiled just a slew of logos from probably about 30 different artists for a book I was putting together called Logos From Hell and that came out in 2015 through Doomentia Press, again another 600 page book. I just felt that heavy metal logos, especially extreme logos, more so the hand drawn ones, needed to be recognized somehow in a uniform way. [I] wanted to really bring attention to the value of heavy metal logo illustration as a legitimate form of expression and logo design. So that was the reasoning for that book and then since that came out last year I thought, you know it’s been about four years, five years maybe since I published an art book so during the last two years, on and off, I was compiling the Morbid Visions book. One of the reasons why I named it Morbid Visions is because it’s a very influential album for me by Sepultura. That was probably one of my all time favorite albums so it seemed appropriate to name it that. It also spoke to the style and content of my work and it’s also more or less the name that I’ve used on some of the branding for the self publishing music that I do for my own band so it seemed like the right choice. But anyhow, it finally came out right at the end of December. [It’s] about 400 pages and it’s all work from the last four years compiled into one book.

Cover of Morbid Visions: The Art of Mark Riddick

Cover of Morbid Visions: The Art of Mark Riddick

You released a series of skateboards with your artwork on them. Did you approach Board Pusher about making them or did they come to you? How did that come about?

I’ve always had an affinity for skateboard art since my youth. I’m not a skater myself by any means but I just remember really appreciating the visuals on skateboards when I was growing up. Looking at Tony Hawk decks or Rob Roskopp, Zorlac I think was the one Pushead had done. I really, really honed in on that in my youth. I always wanted to do a skateboard deck and a couple years back I was solicited by a Swedish skateboard company to do a deck for one of their skaters. I ended up doing that and it was a cool project. [It was] my first time doing that. I’d never done a skateboard deck before. I was really happy with the end result. So I discovered Board Pusher online and submitted some work to them to have some skateboards produced and it just kind of picked up from there and they’ve been great to work with. Their CEO is a very nice guy. He was kind enough to do a couple features about my artwork through the Board Pusher website and media. That was cool. They’re great to work with. I’m really pleased with the quality of their product.

Board Pusher skateboards with Mark Riddick artwork

Board Pusher skateboards with Mark Riddick artwork

A lot of people know your artwork but you’re also a musician. You’re the one behind the one man death metal band Fetid Zombie. As such you released your sixth full length album Epicedia on Transcending Obscurity Records which is your second album in two years, along with several splits that you’ve put out. So why do you think you’ve been releasing so much music in the past couple of years?

With Fetid Zombie I like to try to put out at least one album per year. I’ve been trying to stick to that goal. I’ve also been somewhat prolific with writing and recording so between albums I will tend to release about two or three splits per year and that’s just more or less word of mouth like working with other bands or people contacting me asking to do splits and I usually oblige if I feel like it’s the right fit. Fetid Zombie is essentially a solo project but I do most certainly depend on guest musicians to assist with some of the instrumentation that I can’t do myself or that I envision and know I’m not really capable of. I always rely on other guest musicians to kind of help me see my vision through for the project. I think with Epicedia I really wanted to do something more grandiose so I went for lengthier songs, more epic approach in terms of songwriting, really spent more time on it than anything else I’ve done. I’m happy with the end result. I’m already working on new stuff. I’m hoping to continue in that direction where I combine the core of the band, which is old school death metal because that’s what I grew up on, but also borrowing a lot of elements from traditional heavy metal just to keep the music interesting and captivating.

So is there a reason you don’t really have any other full time band members? It’s just you and guest musicians.

I played in a regular band at least on one occasion with my brother-in-law and a drummer and that was great. It’s just, I have kids now, family, and I just wanted to do something on my own where I can do it on my own time and do it when the inspiration was in place and have more or less full control over how it sounded and how it was represented visually. The entire project is not just about the music for me. It’s [also] about the art and presentation. For me it’s about, how is the end user going to experience this release? That’s important to me so I try to give a little bit of attention to packaging, layout, artwork, things that accompany a music release. But yeah I just like having the conveniences of being able to do all the recording from my home studio at my own leisure and, like I said, when the inspiration is in place. Nothing is forced so I go at my own pace with the project.

Cover of Epicedia by Fetid Zombie

Cover of Epicedia by Fetid Zombie

Do you ever plan on performing live in any kind of capacity?

No I hate playing live. Absolutely hate it. I’m very introverted so it’s extremely difficult for me to get up in front of a crowd let alone play an instrument in front of a crowd and just the whole concept of coordinating such an event, it’s just beyond the amount of time I have in a day. I have way too many obligations on my plate to bother with playing live. I do appreciate that people might be interested in such a thing but I don’t think it’s ever going to happen.

I saw you’ve been getting a lot of press coverage, including an interview in Rolling Stone, for the metal style logos you did for Justin Bieber on his 2016 world tour. It appears you also did some for Rihanna that her backup dancers used during the MTV VMAs last year. Now how exactly did a guy who does all this artwork with skulls and rotting zombies end up working with some of the biggest pop stars in the world?

Haha, I wonder that myself as well. It kind of came out of the blue, I wasn’t expecting it. Regarding the Rihanna stuff, just to clarify, I didn’t do the logos, that was Christophe Szpajdel who, basically if you listen to metal you’ve seen his logos. Emperor, Old Man’s Child, he’s done everything. He handled the logos for that Rihanna performance. I just did the illustrations for the t-shirts that the backup dancers were wearing during the performance. Regarding the Bieber stuff, there’s been some confusion about that too. I just did the Bieber logo stamp. I didn’t do the Pentagram style Purpose Tour logo that a lot of people think I did which I did not do just to clarify. The jobs were pretty much a fluke. It happened after the former creative director for Kanye West had reached out to me regarding some stuff for some kind of show that Kanye was doing. I did a little bit of stuff for them. None of it got published. That project fell through, but one of the people I was working with was one of the guys who helped brand Kanye’s Yeezus Tour. This was all completely new to me because obviously I don’t listen to hip hop music. I don’t know anything about hip hop music but it was an educational experience if you will. Whatever the case, one of the guys involved in that project is the one who contacted me for the Justin Bieber stuff. I was kind of on the fence about it for just a little bit. I thought, I’m going to take a chance on this and let’s see if this starts up a conversation in the metal community and see where it goes. I was really curious and it felt right because a lot of the stuff I’d been seeing in 2016 with the appropriation of heavy metal visuals was kind of getting under my skin a little bit. Not so much that the visuals were being borrowed by hip hop culture, I could care less, but they’re just not doing it right. I kind of was bothering me. It looked too forced so since they were asking me I thought, I don’t want to see any more of this forced stuff out on the market. It was bothering me. So I figured ok, at least they’re asking me because clearly I’m well ingrained in underground metal subculture. So it felt like an interesting test if you will. So I took it on and the end result took place and that’s that.

Justin Bieber logo by Mark Riddick

Justin Bieber logo by Mark Riddick

So do you think you’ll work with any of those guys again?

Well, I’m taking a slightly different approach in 2017 here with my artwork. I actually did get asked last week to do some more stuff for Justin Bieber and I turned it down because in 2017 I want to approach my art differently. I want to do what I want to do. I want to draw what I want to draw this year. So instead of taking guidance from clients and customers about what they want, I just want to do my own thing and then license the drawings out to whomever is interested in the work that I do. That gives me more creative freedom. I’m getting older. I’m 40 now. So by the time nine o’clock rolls around I’m really tired. I just want to watch TV. I’ve had a long day at work, [I want to] hang out with my kids, my wife. I just want to chill out you know? So I figure I still want to draw. I love drawing and I’m still passionate about it but I just want to do my own thing and not feel that sense of obligation. Like oh I’ve got to get this to this band by this time because they’re about to go on tour. I don’t want those pressures right now. 2016 was very productive so 2017 for me, I’m sticking to my guns and just doing what I want to do at my own pace. I’ll still be doing the artwork. I’ll just be approaching it differently.

Now I’d heard that you charged Justin Bieber the same amount as all your other clients. You didn’t raise you rates because he’s really rich or anything. Have you thought about raising your rates after all that exposure?

No. I’m keeping my rates the same. It’s really important for me to be accessible to even the most underground band from maybe a country that might be struggling financially. It’s important to me because I’ve been so involved in the underground metal scene since the early 90s and I know bands struggle. I play in a band. I don’t make money off my music. I don’t expect to. I don’t care. To me it’s about making music and sharing that music. I feel like creativity should never be left to collect dust. If you’re creative and you have a creative output: share it. Whatever means that takes to share it, just share it. Because other people will appreciate your creativity as well. So for me it’s about being fair so that I can still [be] accessible to a really underground band but I’m still easily accessible to maybe a bigger metal band or something along those lines. So no, I have no intention of raising my rates at all. To me it’s just supplemental income. I do favors on occasion too and it just depends on how I feel, you know? Or who I’m dealing with. But no there’s no intention to raise rates by any means. I do want to be accessible like I said.

So what kind of price range do you charge for some of these things like the logos and album covers and t-shirts and things that you do?

I charge a flat rate for all my work. [I] charge the same amount for a logo as I do [for] a finished illustration. One would think the illustration would cost more because it’s more detailed but to me a logo represents a visual branding that has a much longer shelf life than an illustration would so I keep it all at the same price. I charge a flat rate of $350. To me that’s reasonable. If you’re four guys playing in a band, each guy contributes $75 or so, then you get a nice t-shirt design. You know it’s as simple as that. Like I said I want to be fair and I want to be accessible to whoever wants to work with me.

Metalocalypse - Dethklok artwork by Mark Riddick

Metalocalypse – Dethklok artwork by Mark Riddick

You also did some work for the Cartoon Network show Metalocalypse and I remember the show’s fictitious band came to the Fillmore Silver Spring in November of 2012 and they had a shirt for sale there that had artwork you had done on it and I knew as soon as I saw it [that] it was yours. Your style is very recognizable. It had this big skull on it with curled ram horns coming out the side and it had people impaled on it I think. It was really cool looking, it was very striking. Certainly the coolest piece of merch they had there. So I’m really curious, how did that come about? How did you end up working with this television network?

So that was kind of a random thing also. I find that every year something unusual falls in my lap. When I get work I don’t go out looking for the work. It just kind of comes to me so. I don’t mean to sound cocky but that’s just how it is. Stuff falls in my lap. I can decide whether or not I want to take it or [if I] have the time for it. This was a number of years ago I was sitting at my computer and I was on the phone with the drummer from my band and just checking my email while I was on the phone with him and I got the request for some band called Dethklok and they attached a picture of the band and there was a cartoon drawing and I’m thinking, what the hell? Is this a joke? I don’t understand this. I tried reading the email to my drummer while I was on the phone with him and he said, “You need to take that job. That’s from Metalocalypse.” I didn’t know what it was because I don’t really watch too much Adult Swim and honestly I’ve probably only seen one or two episodes of Metalocalypse. But anyhow, that’s how it came about. The art director on their team for that part of Adult Swim had reached out to me and they wanted me to some poster work or t-shirt artwork for them. So they’ve come back a couple times. The show is now off the air but during its span I probably did about five or six maybe seven pieces for them that ended up being used for various print and merchandise products. But they were great to work with. They were very fair and they were actually very generous. I charged them my rate and they paid me more on some occasions because they just had the budget for it which is really, really nice of them. So yeah they’re a good client to work with I really enjoyed working with Cartoon Network.

I follow your Facebook and Instagram accounts and I always see you posting cool artwork you’re working on or have recently completed. Are there any cool projects for bands or anything else that you’re working on right now?

I’m trying to get past some stuff from 2016 that’s lingering so really I’m just trying to clear my plate. So that’s basically the stuff that’s sitting there. I’ll try to get rid of and like I said for 2017 I’ll just move forward in my own direction with my own work and then if a band inquires about art I’ll just give them some options but right now I am preparing to work on something for Thrash Attack which is an underground fanzine from Germany. Which is cool they cover a lot of the really classic, old school German bands or just metal bands in general. Mostly thrash given the title Thrash Attack. I’m working on, I’m very excited about this, it’s about six or seven pieces that will be for split 7″ EPs that are going to be combined to create one image. So they’re like individual record covers but if you buy all the records you can put them together and you get this really long, elaborate piece of artwork. So that’s pretty cool and I’ve got about two more covers before I’m done with that. That’s for a Swedish label called Sound Of Records and they mostly deal with represses but they have a couple things coming out. And let’s see I have to do something for Horror Of Horrors. I’m pretty excited about that. I did a 7″ EP cover for them probably in like 1993 or something like that. To me this is the kind of stuff I really enjoy doing, is when an old, underground band from years ago comes back and wants something else. That makes me really happy. So I’m looking forward to working on that. I gotta to help out Hell’s Headbangers with the new Hellcast logo. That’s their podcast, so I gotta get that done. There’s a record label that does shred guitar stuff called Crushing Notes, I gotta do some cover stuff for them. And then a label logo for a California based record label called Repugnant Records. I have something in progress for Hate Eternal. That’s been kind of dragging along. [I’m] just waiting to hear back. I also strangely did some stuff for Metallica that I’m waiting to hear back on so I don’t know if that’s going to pan out. My feeling is [that it] probably won’t. But that was kind of a unique opportunity to be asked to do that. That’s it, that’s all I have kind of lingering from this past year but beyond that I’ll just kind of see what comes my way.

Sketches of covers that will combine for Sound Of Records

Sketches of covers that will combine for Sound Of Records

You’ve done artwork for a lot of cool bands over the years. Were there any bands that you got to work for that really kind of made you step back and think like, I can’t believe I get to work with this band.

Yeah well the Metallica gig, haha, obviously is a big deal to me. It’s kind of died down a little bit the excitement because last I heard those sketches were sitting with their management so I don’t know if they’ll be approved or not and I know they’re getting ready to tour so if they do want something I’m at the ready but still I’m not really sure if that’s going to pan out. So there’s that obviously but yeah like working on shirts for Grave. Skull Fist is another band I really like. Getting the chance to do a shirt for them last year was pretty cool. My favorite thing is just doing artwork for bands I really like. Like Horrendous or Deceased. Those are two local bands that I really appreciate, it’s cool to be able to do stuff for them. I can’t think of anything else off the top of my head but there’s certainly stuff that’s come by that is really exciting to work on as a project. Rotting Christ, that’s one. That was cool. I got to do something for Rotting Christ that made me happy. There’s definitely a handful of projects that [I] really have been honored to have worked on.

How did you get into drawing and doing artwork for metal bands in the first place?

I’ve always had a curiosity since my youth, before I even knew what heavy metal music was, just by looking at the album covers in record stores I was always kind of enamored by them. When I was about 10 years old I started getting into hard rock music and then like most metal fans you kind of graduate to the heavier and heavier and heavier so you know I went from hard rock to more traditional heavy metal to thrash to death and black metal so there’s always been that appreciation for the aesthetic. I’ve always had an interest in drawing so to be able to couple those together was enlightening for me. I think when I discovered the underground death metal scene that’s when it really clicked for me. That I knew I had an avenue to exercise my skill set in drawing. Starting to do demo covers and 7″ record covers and fanzine covers. I love fanzines because I know that those editors put a lot of time and effort into their finished product and I respect that. It’s just really the underground metal scene, that’s where I really found my calling.

Artwork for Ominous Hymn

Artwork for Ominous Hymn

Have you ever had any formal training for your artwork?

Yeah I’ve had formal training in the sense that in high school I took all the art courses, took some art history. And then when I reached college I ended up majoring in studio art with a concentration in painting which is kind of funny because I don’t paint so much. That’s actually one of my goals for 2017 is to do some more painting, to get back into that a little bit. So I’ll be spending some time on painting this year. So I do have formal training in regarding taking courses in school. I was really lucky to have great art teachers during my education. When I think of my high school years, the two teachers that I had were very supportive, very encouraging and taught the basics but also steered me in the right direction. I guess it helped me be passionate about the art I was doing. When I reached college I was also fortunate to have three professors who were also very wise and had a bit of a philosophical approach to creativity and to art. I felt that that was extremely valuable in terms of applying that to my own work. So, formal training, that’s about it. I do believe that practice helps. I literally draw every day. An artist never creates his masterpiece, it’s always a journey. It’s always a learning process. The masterpiece is never reached but they just get better.

Are you into comic books or anything? I know a lot of artists that do that stuff are into a lot of, maybe old E.C. stuff or even just modern artists.

Yeah I’d say that some of those old E.C. comics played a role in influencing me. I remember collecting some of those when I was probably about 12 or 13 years old. I always had an interest in comic book art, not necessarily reading the comic books but I always loved looking at the pictures and I think at age six or seven I started collecting. I was really fortunate. My aunt Lee [Marrs] and my uncle Mike [Friedrich] were both extremely involved in the comic book industry. I think my uncle Mike created one of the offshoots of the Comic Con. He also created some of the characters in Guardians Of The Galaxy and my aunt she wrote for like Batman and different kinds of comic books. She even had her own indie comic. She was really involved in the feminist comic book movement. So she is kind of considered one of the progenitors of that genre of comic book. They were both really involved in it. We’d give them our comic books and they’d go get them signed by the artists because they knew the artists. It was really cool for me as a kid to be able to have something like that. I always appreciated that. I always had an appreciation for comic book art. Like I said I never really read the stories but I definitely don’t collect them any more. It’s been years since I’ve purchased a comic book but I do have a respect for that genre of art.

Artwork for Cvlt Nation

Artwork for Cvlt Nation

You almost exclusively work in black and white. Is there any reason for that?

Yeah there’s been a couple reasons. I’d say first and foremost my approach to black and white is just a holdover from my early years in the underground metal scene. 1991 was when I first got into that and all the underground magazines and all the demo covers, even some of the 7″ record covers, they were all done on a photocopier. It was kind of rare at the time that you’d see anything with a color copied cover. The quality just wasn’t great and it was sort of an expensive commodity to have a color cover. So the black and white approach speaks to the whole photocopy era of the do-it-yourself attitude the underground metal scene had at the time. I feel like my work really needs to encompass that real visceral, raw, aesthetic from that time period because it played such a pivotal role in my own freelance art career that it seemed a necessity and so it stuck with me and I learned how to manage the pen on paper and I never stopped. I’m still doing it. I feel like it’s become part of my visual brand as an artist and I feel like it’s important. I can’t change. At this point I really don’t want to to be honest with you. I enjoy what I do. It’s, like I said, part of who I am as an artist.

You stopped doing commissions for a while in the early 2000s for maybe about five years or so. Why was that and what made you decide to come back into doing all this artwork for bands.

It’s interesting that you note that. So it’s probably around the time that I finished college up in the late 90s and started my day job work career as a graphic designer. I started learning more about Photoshop and just graphic design in general so I stopped doing the ink work and took an interest in Photoshop. [I was] creating album covers and Photoshop collages and stock imagery and things like that. So during that time period I was active in the sense that I was doing a lot of experimenting on my own. I did a lot of stuff for Willowtip Records I think around that time. Handling graphic design like CD layout and CD designs but they weren’t illustrated they were all like Photoshop collages and things like that. I feel like the metal scene has just become just over saturated with that approach and a lot of the stuff is just not well done so I started to get tired of it and I missed drawing. It had been a couple years since I’d really done a lot of artwork so when Willowtip came to me and said, “Oh I have this new band called Arsis I’m signing. Can you do their logo and their album cover.” So I thought, I’m kind of tired of this Photoshop stuff. I’m gonna pick up my pen and actually draw the album cover this time and then I went back and put some Photoshop stuff in it. But that was kind of what got me back into illustration was doing that A Celebration of Guilt album cover by Arsis. And so around 2005 or 2006 for a holiday gift my twin brother had purchased the domain name for my artwork and that’s what started the whole Riddick Art brand. So it gave me a venue to start publishing my work. Ever since then, so for the past decade or so, it’s just been nonstop. It’s like second nature for me. Drawing for me is like pissing, you know if that makes any sense. It’s just something I do. I have to. It’s therapy for me. It’s meditation for me. So it’s a necessity if you will. But yes since 2006 I just kind of picked it up and didn’t look back.

Cover of A Celebration of Guilt by Arsis

Cover of A Celebration of Guilt by Arsis

Alright well what do you think your biggest artistic influences have been?

I would say in my youth the Iron Maiden album covers. Derek [Riggs], his paintings really resonated with me early on. Obviously Edward J. Repka, all the classic thrash stuff [he painted] and then you know when I got into death metal Dan Seagrave‘s work clearly was inspirational. So some of those album cover painters were the ones who initially got me going and then when I discovered the underground metal scene I really took a liking to an artist named Steve Somers who played bass for an underground band called from Wisconsin called Phantasm. A great band. Some of their stuff just got repressed on cassette again which is awesome. I picked them up even though I have the original demos. But Steve Somers, his artwork was so inspirational for me. It was just better than anything else you’d see in the underground scene. Another artist in the early 90s is Russell Evans. He is no longer active in the scene but he had a lot of great pen and ink work. Obviously Chris Moyen needs to be mentioned here. Chris Moyen, I consider him my European counterpart. He’s been doing the same kind of work since the late 80s and I just absolutely love his style. His stuff is all over the place. If you look at black metal music you’re going to see Chris’s work somewhere. So Chris Moyen is definitely an influence on my own work. Those are some of the first artists that I really looked to for inspiration but there’s so much stuff out there now also. A lot of great artists have been around for a couple years are just starting to do some work. I love Daniel Corcuera from Chile. His stuff is just phenomenal. Probably the best around in my opinion. I like Matt Carr a lot, I like his stuff. He goes by the moniker Putrid. There’s so many artists out there now. I can keep going and going you know like, Halsey Swain. She’s done some great stuff for Toxic Holocaust and a lot of other bands. The list goes on. There’s so many artists out there whose work I love.

Are there any pieces or any projects that are your personal favorites or that you’re just the most proud of?

Not necessarily. I think it would be hard to narrow it down. I guess there are more experiences that I really enjoyed like, I collaborated on a piece with Vince Locke whose done all that Cannibal Corpse artwork. So that was really cool for me to be able to do that. I did a collaboration with [a] Japanese artist named Toshihiro Egawa. He does more of like a brutal slam death metal type artwork but he’s freaking phenomenal so it was cool doing something with him too. I don’t have any real stand outs per se, but there’s certainly pieces I know are more successful in terms of the way they turned out versus others but I don’t have any particular favorites.

Vincent Locke & Mark Riddick collab piece for Loculus

Vincent Locke & Mark Riddick collab piece for Loculus

Most of your artwork seems to be for underground black metal and death metal bands so what is your favorite kind of metal? Do you like death metal or black metal better?

Personally death metal. I tend to be a little bit more picky when it comes to black metal. If you’re talking anything with the Greek or Mediterranean sound like Mortuary Drape or early Rotting Christ or things along those lines, I’m all about it. I love that stuff. But the core of what I’m really into is death metal. Pestilence Consuming Impulse [is] probably one of my favorite death metal albums of all time. Nocturnus, some of the classics. I’m also really into anything underground. I’m always trying to find new and interesting bands. Anything kind of testing the boundaries of the genre a little bit I’m really curious about. So I’m more of a death metal kind of guy but I definitely like black metal, I definitely like thrash. I like a little bit of doom. I like some [traditional] heavy metal. Just the other day [I was] listening to Keel and Ratt and Dokken so, you know, I’m pretty open in terms of my taste but I tend to hone in more so into death metal.

Well thanks a lot Mark. You’ve answered all my questions here and you’ve taken a lot of time and given me some thoughtful answers. I do appreciate it, thank you.

No I appreciate your time and the interest. I’m really grateful for your time and support. I think I mentioned in an email before, what you’re doing for the local metal scene and the metal scene in general is certainly commendable. As a local myself I’m extremely grateful for it. I really appreciate the service that you’re providing on your own time and because it’s something that you’re passionate about. I really respect that.

Well thanks man. I do appreciate it and again thanks for your time and have a good one.

Alright take care man. Have a good night.

Mark Riddick art process

Interview with Abbath

On Tuesday, March 8th of 2016, I was given the chance to interview the legendary Norwegian black metal musician Abbath to help promote his upcoming show in Baltimore. We covered that and so much more in this over 14 minute long interview. Despite his grim appearance he is actually a quite humorous person, though the interview is rather, dare I say, touching, at points. I have been sick all week and my voice is rather flat in much of this interview, but I think the questions were strong enough for you all to get a better idea of the man behind the corpse paint. You can stream the interview below by clicking the orange play button, or you can download it as a 32.63mb mp3 for free here and of course you can read the full transcription below (my words are in bold).

Photo of Abbath by Ester Segarra

Photo of Abbath by Ester Segarra

This is Metal Chris of DCHeavyMetal.com and today I’m speaking with Abbath via Skype all the way from his kingdom cold in Norway. Abbath is probably best known for his time in the Norwegian black metal band Immortal but in January he released an eponymous solo album on Season Of Mist records. Abbath, the band, will be headlining the Decibel Tour with High On Fire, Skeletonwitch and Tribulation also performing. The tour kicks off on St. Patrick’s Day, Thursday, March 17th at the Baltimore Soundstage [tickets available here]. Now to get things started here, am I pronouncing your name correctly?

It’s Abbath [Ah-Baht].

So where exactly did you get the name from? How did you choose the name?

I didn’t choose it, the name chose me. It just appeared in my head.

So what kind of set can fans expect on this tour? Will you be performing any songs from your past bands or all new material?

Not my past bands but my past band, yeah, Immortal, yeah. We’re also going to play a song from the I album, Between Two Worlds album. Yeah and there’s going to be like maybe four Immortal songs and one I song and the rest is going to be new songs.

Now American Gabe Seeber has joined your band as Creature the drummer. How did you find him and how did he end up joining Abbath?

The mighty Creature Gabe yeah. We met this guy in Australia, Brisbane was it? He was an excellent drummer and after the tour Kevin [Foley, original Abbath drummer] left and this guys he told us about Gabriel and he’s just fantastic. He’s just amazing you know. I’m going to meet him in a couple days and [I] can’t wait to do another tour with him you know. He’s the best you know, he’s just amazing and young as well you know. 25 years old and what a fucking talent he is. The best drummer I’ve ever played with. Him and Kevin. I was devastated losing Kevin [but now we] have a kind of a second shot with Gabe.

So the new album has been really well received by fans. What vision did you have for it when you started putting it together and do you think you captured that vision?

It was the carrion call you know? And I was very fortunate to have this great lyricist called Simon Dancaster, who also participated in the early days, who also participated in writing some of the lyrics on Blizzard Beasts. I met him by accident. I haven’t seen him for years and he came to my friend Tore [Bratseth]’s birthday party. Tore from Bömbers my Motörhead tribute band. And we just started working from there you know? I had all these songs, music working and I had these themes and ideas and we just worked around from there.

So what do you think makes Abbath different than Immortal?

Well it’s still my music you know but it’s a different band and it’s different musicians, different lyrics, but it’s still the music you know as it were with Immortal. So it’s just a continuance of myself.

So do you think you’ll ever possibly rejoin Immortal at some point?

Um… I don’t know, you know. I, I, you know, eh… Never say never they say but I don’t, I don’t uh… It’s not a time to think about that right now.

OK so in 2006 you had a band simply called I that also had [Abbath bass player] King Ov Hell in the line up. Is Abbath the band something of a continuation of I do you think or do you see it as a separate entity with its own musical direction?

No I mean it’s still my music. It’s just a continuance of my music and with I, I have more old school heavy metal elements, rock and roll, heavy metal elements put into it. I just sit down and make the music I feel like making and if it works for me, it works.

In November of 2015 there was an Old Funeral reunion performance in Bergen, Norway. Is there any chance that another possible Old Funeral show will happen or even new Old Funeral music?

No that was the last Old Funeral performance ever. If I’m ever going to continue it it’s going to be New Funeral. Hahahaha.

What made you decide to go in the direction of black metal instead of a more death metal sound which was definitely more popular in the underground at that time?

No I never, I never follow what’s popular you know. I just do what I like you know. If I wanna do a fucking pop album I’ll do a fucking pop album. That’s simple as that.

Haha.

If I want to do a disco album I’ll do a fucking disco album, it’s as simple as that. I don’t care what’s popular or not out there. I just follow my gut feeling and heart feeling and just make the music I feel like making. That’s what it is you know. Music to me is freedom. It’s the freedom of expression. It’s just me, you know. Maybe I don’t write the lyrics myself but I’m part of it. The music is mine. I make the music and I find the right people to write the lyrics with me. It’s simple as that. It’s just rock and roll isn’t it? Really?

Heh heh. So what is the definition of black metal to you then?

Lay down your souls to the gods rock and roll! Just uh, you know, Venom. Black metal to me is Venom. 1982.

Do you think black metal should just be about the music itself or do you think religious, theistic and political beliefs have a place in it as well? And do you think fans of black metal need to share similar beliefs with the bands they support? For example, can you be a devout Christian that is also a fan of black metal?

You know black metal is, it’s supposed to be rock and roll. It’s the Devil’s music. It’s about freedom and it’s about, fuck off to those who would tell you what to fucking do or whatever the fuck it’s just, be your own god. Work your own mysterious ways. Believe in yourself and have a kick ass fucking time. Bang your fucking head. Be cool, hahaha. It’s rock and roll, yeah, that’s what it is. Without rock and roll you know, without Buddy Holly there would never be a fucking Venom or a Motörhead. It’s just you know, raise your fist and kill.

In March of 2000 I saw Immortal on tour with Satyricon, Angelcorpse and Krisiun in Wheaton, Maryland at a place called Phantasmagoria. I remember seeing you breathe fire on stage and leaving giant black marks on the ceiling and I’d never seen a black metal band put on a show like you guys did that night. You guys really blew me away and I became an instant fan and a couple months ago Satyr of Satyricon, he made some comments in an interview [here] about that tour and he said he disliked playing small bars and clubs in the Midwest on that tour. Do you remember anything about that tour and was it really that bad?

We were touring around the States. We did some shows on the West Coast and we did a couple of shows, we just jumped on the Satyricon tour. We were sharing a van with the Brazilian guys Krisiun. The mighty brothers of Krisiun. And [I] remember Alex [Camargo, bass and vocals for Krisiun] one of his favorite albums, Battles In The North hahaha. And uh we just jumped on the tour, the Satyricon tour, they had their own bus and Angelcorpse they had their van. And I remember, it was alright. It was Satyricon’s gig you know. We didn’t get a sound check or anything but we delivered you know. The show must go on always, whatever. The last show, we’ve been touring a month in Europe and it’s been great and everything. We’ve had a sound check every night and the last show on this tour, Blastfest, we didn’t get a sound check and the sound on stage was horrible but fortunately we know how to play. We didn’t hear jack shit up there. [Abbath makes a lawn mower sound]

Well the Baltimore Soundstage where you’ll be playing on Thursday the 17th, they actually have really good sound. They’re one of the better sounding venues in Baltimore so hopefully that won’t be a problem.

Baltimore, yeah yeah. I’m flying over with my tour manager Steve on Sunday and we fly to Philly to have a couple days of rehearsal there because our bass player is not able to come over so we’re gonna play with another bass player over there.

Oh who’s going to be playing bass on this tour?

Uhh… I don’t remember his name but he’s a friend of Gabe’s and he’s alright.

Abbath performing with Immortal at Sonar in 2011

Abbath performing with Immortal at Sonar in 2011

The last time you performed in Baltimore was when Immortal played at Sonar in February of 2011.

I remember that one, yeah.

Yeah I remember someone threw a bottle on stage during “Grim And Frostbitten Kingdoms” [video here] and I remember you stopped the show and got really mad and yelled at the guy. Did you ever find the guy or anything? Did you ever find out who did that?

No I didn’t.

Do you remember anything else from that show? It was with Absu I believe was the opener.

Yeah Absu yeah. Absulutely! Hahahaha. Uh… that show was alright wasn’t it?

It was a great show, yeah.

Yeah. You never know who’s in the fucking audience. It’s like, that’s a part of the battle isn’t it? It’s the front line, you never know who’s going to show up, what’s going to fucking happen. We were supposed to play in Bataclan [the concert hall in Paris, France, where terrorists killed 90 people while the Eagles Of Death Metal performed there on 13 November 2015]. You know Motörhead was supposed to play there a couple days after that massacre you know. It could have been us, it could have been Motör[head]. You never know but the show must go on. You have to go up there because, it’s your life it’s what you want to do you know. It’s just rock and roll and if that’s what’s going to fucking kill you, alright. So if someone throws a bottle, you know, I’m not fucking Axel Rose alright?

Now you were in a Motörhead cover band called Bömbers for a while and I was curious what kind of effect Lemmy [Kilmister, bass and vocals of Motörhead] had on you musically and how did his passing last December affect you. Did you ever get a chance to meet him?

Yeah several times. What a fucking gentleman he was, yeah. Him and Ronnie Dio, coolest guys I’ve ever met. I love my father but fuckin’ hell those were my fathers too ya know. And [it was] just devastating. It was… I still can’t believe they’re gone ya know. Fuckin’ hell. Me and King you know we went to Greece… a couple days ago we came home recently from Greece finishing the video for “Winterbane” and I bought this Metal Hammer special. I mean I had like a five hour wait in [the] Copenhagen airport and [the] Metal Hammer special, Lemmy special and I just sat… there in the bar reading it and, and uh… you know I… I got this lump in my throat and it just… it just, you know… devastating. He was like a father to us in many ways. Lemmy… he was the best. He was the coolest. He was everything. So where do we go from here you know, yeah. Carry on. Carry fucking on. Rock and roll. Yeah.

Lords Of Chaos movie poster

Lords Of Chaos movie poster

So what do you think about this Lords Of Chaos movie [based on the book Lords of Chaos: The Bloody Rise of the Satanic Metal Underground by Michael Moynihan and Didrik Søderlind] that is in pre-production right now? Do you know if you will be portrayed in the movie or have you been consulted about it in any way?

Really? I didn’t know, I didn’t know about that.

Apparently it’s not a documentary it’s going to be an actual movie with a script and everything.

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

I think Ridley Scott has attached his name to it, the famous director. I think he’s producing it or he’s somehow tied to it.

Ridley Scott? You’re talking about the Alien director?

Yep. Yeah I don’t think he’s directing it I think he’s like the producer or something like that. He’s been attached to it. I saw his name attached to it [here].

Yesterday in fact I saw this movie with my girlfriend called The Martian [that is directed by Ridley Scott].

Yeah, yeah. The one where they go to Mars and he’s a scientist trying to stay alive.

Yeah, yeah. And there’s a Norwegian actor in that called Aksel Hennie and that was fucking great I mean, Ridley Scott? Wow. It better be good then! Hahaha.

Hahaha. I mean it’s probably a couple years away still or at least a year I would think but I was just curious if you’d heard anything about it.

Whatever, we’ll see! Hahaha.

Now there’s a brewery in Austin, Texas called Jester King that names some of their beers after different heavy metal subgenres and they make a stout named Black Metal and the drawing in the label is a guy that wears corpse paint and he looks pretty similar to you. Have you ever tried that beer and do you like it?

Jester King's Black Metal beer label

Jester King’s Black Metal beer label

Never heard of it, I probably don’t like it. Hahaha.

Do you like craft beer at all? Do you ever drink the micro brews or anything?

I like this… Ringnes!

That’s something we don’t have over here.

This is what I drink mostly. It’s a good Norwegian beer.

Well 1349, they’ve had a couple beers come out with their name on it like official 1349 beers. Do you think there will ever be like an Abbath Ale?

Abbath Ale? Hahaha. I just did a tour with Behemoth recently and they had a couple of beers they wanted me to try. They were actually good, yeah. Pretty good. Yeah. Everybody is doing that now. Nobody sells records so they gotta fucking sell something. Hahaha.

Well thanks so much for your time Abbath. Is there anything else you’d like to tell your fans before your tour starts here on March 17th at the Baltimore Soundstage?

Die hard! …please come to our show. Hahaha. We’re gonna do our damnedest! Yeah. I can’t wait, I can’t wait. Fucking hell.

Awesome.

I’m looking forward to it, yeah.

I’m really excited it should be a great show.

Thank you Metal Chris!

Alright have a good one man and have a good flight over here on Sunday.

Thank you sir.

Alright, take it easy.

You too.

Interview with Steve “Zetro” Souza of Exodus

Last Friday I interviewed another icon of heavy metal, Steve “Zetro” Souza. Zetro is fronting thrash metal band Exodus and they will be playing at the Black Cat on Wednesday. This is one of my shortest interviews but we covered a lot in that time including when we can expect a new Exodus album, what is going on with some of his other projects and how he got the nickname Zetro in the first place. You can stream the six minute interview by pressing the orange button below or download it as a 7.81 mb mp3 here. The transcription is below and my words are in bold.

Photo of Zetro Souza by Bruce Getty

Photo of Steve “Zetro” Souza by Bruce Getty

Hello, this is Metal Chris and today I’ve got Zetro Souza, the vocalist of the legendary Bay Area thrash band Exodus, on the phone with me. Exodus is currently on tour with King Diamond however the band is taking a night off from the tour with King Diamond to play at the Black Cat in Washington DC on Wednesday, November 18th. So how’s the tour with King Diamond been going so far?

It’s great. It’s crazy every night. It’s a good package. The King and us [have] been around forever you know I guess you could say and we’ve been good friends a long time so the tour really works really well. We’re good friends with his band and their crew so yeah, it’s kicking ass. It’s definitely kicking ass.

So will Exodus be playing a different set list at all for the headline show at the Black Cat? Any oddball songs maybe thrown in that you might not be doing on the rest of the tour?

Yeah because we only get 45 minutes with King so we’ll play 90 minutes that night so there’ll be a lot of stuff thrown in. Even the set we have with King there’s a couple of songs in there that we haven’t played in a long, long, long time that we’ve brought up so.

Now I remember when Exodus played at Empire in November of last year, I was at that show and I remember seeing you sing some of the songs from the Rob Dukes era of the band like “Children Of A Worthless God” for example. Do you have any problem playing those songs from his time in the band?

No. No they’re actually really good songs. I actually play a couple of different ones on this tour. I think we play “Children [Of A Worthless God]” but we also play two different ones that we didn’t do on that one. They’re good songs. There’s no reason to take Exodus’ history away. Just because I’m back in the band doesn’t mean the last ten years didn’t count or didn’t matter. Those songs are really, really good.

So the 2014 Exodus album Blood In Blood Out has been a hit with the fans. I know the album was written with Rob Dukes in the band. Are there any plans to do another Exodus album in the future with you involved in the writing process?

Oh yeah. All of the few stints that I’ve done with Exodus I’ve always written songs. Obviously we’re going to keep going. This isn’t just like, get in the band and finish it all. We’re going to keep going. This is what we do. We love what we do.

So is there any kind of time frame on that? Have you guys started writing at all or any kind of studio time scheduled?

Well you know we haven’t started writing. [Exodus guitarist] Gary [Holt] also plays in Slayer so Slayer just put out Repentless a few months ago so they’re touring as well. I would say… probably no sooner than 2017 at some point ’cause we still have 2016 all booked up with tours to do as well.

In July it was announced that you are not going to be doing vocals for Hatriot any more. Do you think you’ll ever rejoin your sons in Hatriot?

You know what he wants to do it. My oldest [Cody Souza] wants to be the singer and he sounds really good. He does a really, really good job at it. So him and I are writing songs together ’cause he’s not a lyricist yet but he’s learning and he’s gonna be great. I’m watching over them. I’m making sure they get going.

That’s cool. Do you think we’ll ever be getting any more songs from Dublin Death Patrol?

Nah. Chuck [Billy]’s too busy with Testament and his management company and I’m too busy with Exodus and trying to write songs with Hatriot as well so probably not. That was kind of just supposed to be a one album thing and then we kind of got talked into the second one and we really didn’t have any time to tour ’cause at that time [the Testament album] Dark Roots Of Earth was coming out so [we] just couldn’t do it. So it was alright. It worked out great. It was fun.

Now have you played Washington, DC before? Do you remember anything special from any shows in this area?

Oh yeah well we played there many times. It was a real small room. I can’t remember what it is [named]. [It] probably doesn’t even exist any more. But it’s been a while since I’ve played in DC. It was back in the 80’s and the 90’s it was a tiny little room. I think we played there with Leatherwolf and Cycle Sluts From Hell. It was actually a really cool gig.

Do you have any bands from the DC area that you’re a fan of?

Minor Threat come on.

Yeah.

Everybody loves Minor Threat.

Pentagram is from here.

Oh they are? I didn’t know that.

Yeah, Pentagram, Clutch

I thought they were from Connecticut.

You’re one of the old guard from the old Bay Area thrash scene. Are you a fan of any of the modern thrash bands that have come out in the last maybe ten years or so like Municipal Waste, Power Trip, Skeletonwitch, Vektor?

Yeah because see I was in Hatriot so I was on that level for a while so Havok you know, Hatchet, those bands are all killer you know. [The] Black Dahlia Murder, [The] Faceless, I love those bands.

So are there any new bands that you’ve been listening to a lot like right now like maybe a new album [that has] come out in the last year or two.

Nothing new. I’m more old school like I’ve been slamming the new [Iron] Maiden, the new Slayer and actually the new Soilwork lately.

Okay, where exactly does the nickname “Zetro” come from?

Oh I was taking some drugs, some acid when I was about 17, no 14, and I just blurted out the word “zet” and from zet it turned into zetro. So they started calling me that when I was like 14 so it’s been around for quite some time.

Haha, alright. Um…

Don’t do acid kids!

Haha. Now there’s tons of metal bands that have been getting an official beer made for them by various craft breweries lately. Is there any chance that Exodus might have an official beer coming out at some point?

I don’t know [about an] official [beer]. They’ve been making non-official ones I’ve seen over in Belgium and in Holland but actually Jack [Gibson], our bass player, was telling me that there is actually a brewery up in Northern California that’s going to make an Exodus beer. So we’ll see what happens.

Oh cool, cool.

That’d be great. Those are all the flattering things in life.

Hahaha. Well that’s all my questions. Thanks a lot for your time here it’s been really cool getting a chance to talk to you. Can’t wait to see you perform with Exodus at the Black Cat on Wednesday, November 18th. Anything else you’d like to say to the metal fans in the DC area right now?

The DC and Virginia fans always supported us man we love that pit so come out and see Exodus next Wednesday. We’ll kick your ass for sure.

Alright man. Well thanks a lot.

Thanks Chris. See you then.

Interview with Max Cavalera of Soulfly

Earlier this week I had the chance to talk to another one of the legends of metal, Max Cavalera. He was very laid back and down to Earth and he is the first person I’ve interviewed that has brought up some of our local bands without me asking first! Max talks about Soulfly’s new album and tour as well as his time in Sepultura, the future of Killer Be Killed and he even gave some cool background stories as well. The entire interview lasts a bit under 15 minutes and you can stream it below by pressing the orange play button, download it as a 20mb mp3 here or read the transcription below where my words are the ones in bold. I hope you enjoy this interview as much I did!

Photo of Max Cavalera by Hannah Verbeuren

Photo of Max Cavalera by Hannah Verbeuren

Hello everyone. This is Metal Chris and today I’ve got the honor of interviewing Max Cavalera who is the main man behind Soulfly [and] who is also a current or former member of many other bands including Cavalera Conspiracy, Killer Be Killed, Sepultura and Nailbomb. Soulfly is currently on tour right now and they will be playing at the Ottobar in Baltimore on Wednesday, October 21st. So to start things off here Max, let’s talk about the newest Soulfly album, Archangel, which came out this past August. Can you tell me about the concepts behind it? It seems to have sort of a Biblical feel to it.

It’s a different record for sure you know it’s our tenth album and we are trying to do something a bit different from everything we have done and I decided to call the album Archangel and having a couple of biblical references in some of the songs like “Sodomites,” “Bethlehem’s Blood” and some old Babylonian themes like “Ishtar Rising” and “Shamash.” It was cool. It was a fun record to make. We had a really good procuder, Matt Hyde, he has done Slayer‘s God Hates Us All, and Monster Magnet and Deftones. So he’s a very good guy, very good producer. And we had a good team you know. The artwork was done by Eliran Kantor. He’s a guy from Jerusalem that lives in Germany and does some amazing album covers and the inner sleeve was done by Marcelo Vasco who is a friend of mine from Brazil. [He] does a lot of death metal album covers. He actually did also the new Slayer album cover. So I like the album too. I think the album is extreme. It’s got a lot of influence from the stuff I listen to and I think it is very energetic. It shows a very energetic side of Soulfly that things are not slowing down at all. We’re just getting started you know, even on our tenth album. So it’s pretty exciting.

Cover of Archangel by Soulfly

Cover of Archangel by Soulfly

To my understanding Mike Leon from the band Havok is playing bass on your current tour. So how did he end up joining Soulfly?

Yeah we found out that Mike was not with Havok any more and we thought it would be a great fit for Soulfly because he’s such a good bass player and he’s a good friend too you know. So we knew him, Soulfly did a tour with Havok, we all became friends and he kept in contact with us. When he played near my house with Arsis he came to see me and so we flew him in and did some practice and he’s amazing. And he brought a whole lot of new blood to Soulfly man. A lot of people are saying this line up is the most lethal they’ve seen in a long time man. It’s pretty kick ass. I got somebody I can headbang with now ’cause [Soulfly guitiarist] Marc [Rizzo] doesn’t have any hair. So you know I still got all my dreadlocks and you know Mike has a lot of hair so we can headbang together, haha.

Now I know the guys in Decapitated were having visa problems getting into the country for this tour. Have you heard any update on if they’re going to be on the tour at all or are they still just awaiting to hear anything?

They’re going to be on [the] tour but I just don’t know when. They’re supposed to be getting that cleared out any day now. In fact I heard rumors they were supposed to be here tomorrow or the next day. They’re going to be here. So we just keep our fingers crossed because I love Decapitated and I love to have them. It’s such a good bill with them on it you know it’s a strong four bill tour and it’s a shame that it had to happen to them. I hate those visa things and government things like that so you know it’s like it sucks when that happens. But we are hoping that they will be here soon so we can at least finish the tour with them.

As I mentioned before, you’re in a bunch of bands and after this Soulfly tour ends, which band are you going to be focusing on?

Well right now I’m focused on Soulfly for a long time ’cause the album just came out and I’m really excited for Archangel. I think it’s an album that we can do a lot with you know we can really tour a lot for it and we are going to try to tour a lot. We have two tours right now. This one with Soilwork and Shattered Sun and then we have another one in November with Crowbar and Incite and Shattered Sun and then we have some shows already in Australia early next year and Europe and some invitations to do some other stuff that we are looking at right now and hopefully we can go [to] South America, Australia, China and Japan, Middle East I hope you know and another US run because we didn’t do a lot of the big markets like Detroit, Philadelphia. We didn’t do that on this tour yet so there’s still places to play in the US so for another tour so we are hoping that we can get another one of those tours next year.

That’s really cool you’re going to be playing on this for a while too but I guess that means no new Cavalera Conspiracy or Killer Be Killed any time soon?

No, not for a while. Cavalera [Conspiracy] is on a big break. I will not probably touch Cavalera [Conspiracy] for a long, long time and Killer Be Killed maybe. We [will] see where we [are] at next year. We maybe do some riffing and get some song ideas started for the next record and see where we are at. Where every band member is at the time. Troy [Sanders] had a little bit of family problems early with his wife having cancer and had to cancel a bunch of Mastodon dates so we’re hoping that things get better on his camp and then he can come back and do some more stuff with Killer Be Killed. I’m in contact with Greg [Puciato] all the time. He’s super excited for another record. We’re going to do it, it’s just, we don’t know when or where, but it is going to happen at some point. I think we are going to work a little bit on it next year and then eventually get it out there some time in the future.

Have you ever thought of doing a solo Max Cavalera album or do you sort of see Soulfly as your solo project?

Soulfly is kind of my thing like, ’cause I have all the guests on every album. You know we had Todd [Jones] from Nails and Matt [Young] from King Parrot on Archangel and I had David Vincent from Morbid Angel and Tom Araya from Slayer and Chino [Moreno] from Deftones and Corey [Taylor] from Slipknot and the list of people that I work with is real long but I would like to tour more with other bands. Especially I’ve got a lot of bands that I like. I like a lot of new bands you know like Homewrecker and Genocide Pact and…

Oh yeah, Genocide Pact is from here.

Yeah. Xibalba, Young And In The Way, you know I like a lot of this new stuff man. You know it’s great. The new Genocide Pact album [titled Forged Through Domination] is insane. I’ve been listening to that a lot and I love it and hopefully [Soulfly will] get one of those bands to tour with us next year. Would be great.

So are there any other DC area bands you might be into? We’ve got a bunch from here. Like you said Genocide Pact but also you know Pig Destroyer, Dying Fetus, Pentagram, Deceased.

All of those are great, haha. Me and my son Igor we really like them a lot. You know Igor is a guitar player [in] Lody Kong and they’re really good friends with the Noisem guys and the Full Of Hell guys so they’ve been to our houses a bunch of times and I never actually met Dom [Romeo] from A389 Records but my son Igor has met him. Hopefully he can come to the Ottobar show. I’m really dying to meet him and finally get to know him in person. I’m a big Pulling Teeth fan. I love Pulling Teeth man you know. I mean they were just an amazing, amazing hardcore band, grindcore band you know so I’m very excited to be out to the Baltimore show. I think it’s going to be a great show.

You’re kind of talking about some of like the hardcore bands, you know I remember back in the day when you were back in Sepultura, Jello Biafra helped you guys write the “Biotech Is Godzilla” song and I was always kind of curious, how did that happen?

I’m not sure if I remember exactly how but I think we kind of hand picked him out of our idols that we had growing up in Brazil. Dead Kennedys was a huge, huge band that me and [Max’s brother and former Sepultura band mate] Igor [Cavalera] listened to a lot. I especially loved the lyrics. I love Jello’s black humor on stuff like “Holiday In Cambodia” and “California Über Alles,” “Kill The Poor,” “Drug Me.” So we had the idea to let him to write the lyrics for the song and he did it and sent it on a cassette tape and I ended up using the growl that he did on the cassette tape. I put that on the record. And he was pretty surprised when he heard that. He wasn’t expecting it. He told me like, if I would have told him he would have made a better growl and I told him, “No, no but that’s what’s cool that you’re not thinking that was going to go on the record. That’s why I like it ’cause you weren’t really prepared for it.” You know so, I gave him that excuse and he was cool with that and you know I’ve always been into the whole punk scene. A lot of European punk stuff, Discharge, GBH, Exploited and on the American side of course Black Flag and Minor Threat and Bad Brains of course, one of my favorites. Amazing, amazing. I think they’re pioneers of so much of the stuff. Even some of the ideas that I’ve brought into Soulfly some of the stuff like doing kind of like the metal reggae versions of songs like “Bring It” and “I And I” are heavily, heavily based on the actual original idea of Bad Brains which was mixing hardcore and reggae and I love that mix. I think it’s a great mix. I still think more can be done with it and I think it’s something to dwell with in the future, to do more stuff with that.

You worked with another guy from the DC area in a project. That was when you worked with David Grohl in the Probot project. How did he contact you about that or were you already friends with him? How did you get involved in that project with him?

Yeah Dave used to come see all the Sepultura shows all the time. He was a big fan. When he was living in Seattle he came a lot to the Sepul shows and we struck a friendship and we got contacted from him out of the blue about this Probot project and he sent me five songs actually and he told me to pick one and I love “Red War.” It reminds me of [the Sepultura song] “Territory” the beginning and I even told him that. “Like that’s cool man. Sounds kind of like ‘Territory.'” I love the beginning of the song and so I went in the studio and put the vocals on it but I love the idea [of] an album with his favorite metal singers and I love the record I think that the King Diamond song is excellent, the Cronos song, the Lemmy [Kilmister] song. It is a very, very cool record. A very cool idea and I think he pulled it off man. He’s such a good drummer and the music on it is really good. The Probot music is actually really, really powerful and we actually played “Red War” live with Soulfly a couple times on a European tour and it was really fun. I did a book last year [titled My Bloody Roots: From Sepultura to Soulfly and Beyond] and we actually asked Dave to do the introduction of the book and he was very, very honored and he did it for me and gave me the coolest introduction ever about his speakers that cost twenty thousand dollars getting blown up by the Roots album [by Sepultura]. I thought that was such a great story and it was really cool you know so I was really glad that he got to do the introduction of the book and he’s such a huge fan and loves Roots so much so it was great having him do that for the book and I was very excited.

I’ve always thought you’ve had a really cool story too. You guys came out of Brazil almost out of nowhere out of this underground metal scene that was pretty much unheard of until you guys took the world by storm. It must have been really hard finding an underground metal scene at all in those days. You know this was way before the internet. How exactly did you get into metal in those days back then?

It was very different. Like you said it was before internet. We used to do tape trading and sending tapes out and painting our own t-shirts and sending them out and we were in contact with a lot of underground bands. I remember being in contact with Death, Morbid Angel, Obituary and Kreator and Destruction, Dark Angel, Possessed and all those bands wrote back to me and in fact my first time I saw the name Sepultura was on the first Death album Scream Bloody Gore that he thanked Max and Sepultura. That was really cool for me to see that for the first time. So yeah it was a different time, different era but I look [at] it both ways. It was exciting at the time but I think it’s cool now too because I think you can find a lot of cool stuff on the internet. You can look for bands from different parts of the world. You find Psycroptic from Tasmania and Nervecell from Dubai and Melechesh from Israel. I use Spotify a lot and find a lot of cool bands on it myself so I think it’s cool.

So you live in the Phoenix, Arizona area now right? So do you ever think of going back to Brazil to like live back in Brazil do you ever visit there or anything?

Nah I go there to play and my mom lives there. I get to see her and I do a lot of shows there. I did a big, big Cavalera [Conspiracy] tour. We played everywhere. We had a tour bus even for the first time ever and we went from city to city and went to some really obscure cities of Brazil and it was a great tour and I have been going to Brazil more often than ever the last three, four years. I’ve been there quite a lot, quite massively. It’s great you know. So I don’t really plan to move there. I love Phoenix. I love Arizona. For writing it’s really good where I am. I write my music in peace and it’s really good you know so I love going to Brazil to play but that’s about it.

Now I think I already know the answer to this but I feel like I have to ask. Do you think there’s any kind of way that there will ever be any kind of Sepultura reunion with you. Even just a one-off live show or anything?

Probably not you know. I mean I don’t see it happening and I don’t really care much about it. I think the time has gone when it was exciting to do it was like ten years ago it would have been cool but not now. And we all moved on from everything. You know I got a lot of projects. I got Cavalera [Conspiracy], Killer Be Killed, Soulfly is doing great so I don’t really need it you know it’s like, kind of let it become a, kind of a cult thing as it was. You know when I was with them we did great stuff. The records were amazing and live shows were killer and a lot of that is captured on video and people can see it. We can not live it up to, um, not to ruin it because a lot of those reunions they’re not really good you know so it’s like why ruin something that was good? So I think it’s kind of better to leave it like that you know.

You know I feel lucky I actually got to see you guys on the Roots tour with Ozzy and Danzig out here in like ’96 or something. Well thanks so much for your time today Max. If you’ve got anything else you’d like to tell the fans out here in the Washington DC, Baltimore, Virginia area now’s your chance.

I’m really excited for the show. It’s going to be a great show. You know keep supporting metal and we’ll see everybody at the show. It’s going to be an amazing night. You know I can’t wait. Can’t wait at the Ottobar. It’s going to be a great, great night for metal and we’re going to try to play as hard as we can play. Try to give them the best show possible they can get.

Alright well thanks so much again for your time man. I’ll be seeing you on October 21st at the Ottobar with Soulfly. Thanks again Max.

Alright, thank you man.

Soulfly At The Ottobar on 21 October 2015

Interview with Brian Posehn

There aren’t a lot of metal heads that have broken into the mainstream without being in a huge band, but comedian, actor, writer and heavy metal fan Brian Posehn has done just that. He has appeared in too many movies and TV shows for me to list them all here but you can see him live at the Black Cat doing his stand up routine this Thursday, November 20th, 2014 (details here). You don’t have to be a metal head to enjoy his style of comedy but there’s usually some inside jokes for us in there too. I got the chance to talk to him on the phone recently and what started as an interview quickly turned into a conversation between two metal heads asking each other what bands they like and what they’re listening to lately. You can stream the 19 minute interview by clicking the orange play button below, download it as an mp3 here, or read the following transcription which is full of useful links. Bonus points for reading along as you listen! If you’ve ever wondered exactly what kind of a metal head Brian Posehn is then you’re going to love this interview.

Brian Posehn head shot

Hello this is Metal Chris of DCHeavyMetal.com and I’ve got comedian Brian Posehn here on the phone with me right now. Brian will be doing stand up at the Black Cat in Washington, DC on Thursday, November 20th. He’s put out three albums of stand up comedy including The Fartist in 2013, has appeared in several movies and TV shows including Just Shoot Me! and [as] the heavy metal loving neighbor Brian Spukowski on The Sarah Silverman Program and he’s even been the full time writer for the Deadpool ongoing comic book series. He’s known as a metal head and often references metal bands in his stand up routine. To get things started here Brian, can you tell me what fans can expect from your stand up show on Thursday?

*Iron Man’s helmet*

Yeah my son is saying that Iron Man is a metal head because he has a metal helmet. Sorry you have a five year old chiming in helping me answer. What was the question? Sorry.

What can fans expect from your show this Thursday?

More of the same is a terrible answer but it’s me and the act right now is pretty self deprecating, but it has been. I’m transitioning out of The Fartist. I’ve retired most of those jokes. There might be one or two of those jokes left but I’m already working on the next album and it’s almost there. I have 45 minutes of new material I just need to kind of cap the hour off with some new stuff and then it’ll be ready to go. Metal Chris is his name, Rhoads.

*OK*

Rhoads is named after a guitar player.

*Yeah.*

Rhoads you love Ozzy don’t you?

*Yeah I like Ozzy*

Yeah.

Is there an opener for your set this Thursday, and do you know who it is?

Yeah it’s a buddy of mine, Jeremy Essig. He’s kind of my regular– not kind of, he’s been my regular feature for the last couple of years. [I] met him in Saint Louis and he flies everywhere and he drives everywhere and is just a really funny dude and loves being on the road so, it’s nice.

So is there any reason you decided to perform at the Black Cat instead of a more traditional comedy venue? I think the last time I saw you here you were at the Arlington Cinema And Drafthouse which does a lot more stand up.

Yeah I love that spot and will probably go back there but I’ve done the Black Cat before with Comedians Of Comedy [a 2005 comedy tour featuring Patton Oswalt, Zach Galifianakis, Brian Posehn and Maria Bamford] and it’s a good rock club space for comedy. I had a couple of good experiences there. I’m looking forward to it. Mostly what I’m doing lately is rock clubs. I still have a handful of comedy clubs that I will forever do pretty much but I’m trying to do more of the one show or two shows in and out at a rock club and then go to the next city.

I heard that you’ve got a comedy album in the works that’s going to be all music, with Scott Ian of Anthrax, that you guys are putting together. Do you have a name for this band or this project?

Yeah we’re just calling it Posehn. That’s what we did for the songs that were on my two Relapse records that I did. It’s just kind of simple, just the last name. And then [I] don’t know what the record is called yet but we’re done with all the demos. We’re mostly done with the basic tracks and Scott’s got to come in and redo some guitars and then we’re filling up solos. Guys like Gary Holt [of Exodus and Slayer] just sent me a solo the other day. Alex Skolnick [of Testament] did one. Kim Thayil is going to do one, from Soundgarden, it’s crazy. It’s shaping up to be really funny and with actual amazing musicianship. Not me of course but all my friends.

Do you plan to tour to support this once it comes out?

Scott and I have talked about doing something. He and I want to do a spoken word tour and then maybe. It would be really hard to get a touring band behind one record too and I don’t know. I’d love to think about it at some point but what we might wind up doing is just doing acoustic versions of stuff, he and I. That [would] probably be easier to schedule.

You could always try to set up getting another band to open for you and then steal some of their members for your set later that night.

That’s a great idea too. Yeah, I’ve never really thought out the logistics because honestly it’s not really a dream. Touring as a stand up is so much easier, from what I’m told, than touring as a band guy.

You don’t have to tear down all the drum kits every night either.

Haha, right.

Who would you tour with, do you think, if you could? I could see you with Tenacious D or Gwar or something like that.

Yeah those guys are funny but I’m talking about going out with bands that I’m friends with that I actually like that wouldn’t be funny. Somebody like Red Fang might be a good fit. Go out with them and just do the straight metal and then I do the goofy metal and then maybe do a stand up routine. I think if you went out with Steel Panther or something like that it would just be… I don’t know… almost too much, you know, too much comedy. I like breaking it up with a regular metal band because I have no problem performing in front of, or after, really heavy bands.

Do you have any favorite metal bands from the DC area?

Not metal but probably one of the best shows all time still for me is seeing Bad Brains [on their] Quickness tour which is their crossover record. Well yeah that is a metal record.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah I saw them [on] that tour with the band Leeway in San Francisco and it’s still one of the craziest shows I’ve ever seen in my life. Kids were hitting the ceiling from stage diving and crowd surfing and then, because it’s Bad Brains, they would transition from like a really heavy, fast, crazy song to a reggae song and then people were still going off and going nuts and hitting the ceiling. It was insane. Twenty-five years ago [and it still] holds up as one of the best shows I’ve ever seen. Maybe almost thirty, ugh, god I’m old.

Have you ever seen the Heavy Metal Parking Lot documentary movie?

Yes! Love it. And that takes place out there right? Yeah.

Yeah it’s from DC. So have you ever thought about coming out to Baltimore for the Maryland Deathfest we have out here every year?

Yeah I’ve been wanting to it’s just never worked out. It’s kind of hard to justify and plus once you’re a dad, like, hey honey I’ve got to fly across the country just to go to a metal show. And if I was performing or bringing people up that might work, that would be awesome. I just did Phil Anselmo’s festival. The Housecore [Horror Festival] thing. Yeah if it was something like that situation that would be perfect because there I got to perform and then I got to hang out for two days and watch a bunch of bands. It was awesome.

So what would you say your favorite metal band to see live is?

Still… I mean the best show ever is still [Iron] Maiden. You can’t beat that. [You] can’t beat that band and those songs and their live performances are insane. Newer bands… not that Lamb Of God is new but I love Lamb Of God shows, I love Mastodon shows, I love Down.

So are there any metal bands you’ve always wanted to see but you haven’t had the chance to yet?

Not really. No there’s not a lot of bands out there that I haven’t seen yet.

So you go out to a lot of shows, that’s good.

I do man. I try to. Like I said it gets tough with me being on the road and then sometimes you know I’ll be in a place like Maryland and then I’ll see that Lamb Of God was just there and then of course I don’t get to see Lamb Of God when I’m in LA cause I’ve got something else or I’m on the road but that said, I make as much of an effort as I can to see bands.

Well on DC Heavy Metal here, next time you’re coming through this area, which will be on November 20th, you know we do have a calendar on here that shows all the metal shows from Maryland, DC and Virginia with links to where to buy tickets, all the venues, all that stuff on there so.

Nice.

Yeah. So, what are exactly your favorite genres of metal? I know you like some different bands from kind of across the spectrum but what are your favorite genres?

Well traditional and I love a lot of new wave of British heavy metal stuff. I was into that before thrash came. And then thrash. But I also love death [metal]. I love a lot of Florida death [metal] bands. I’m probably more versed in Florida death [metal] than any of the other versions just because I was working at a record store when those first couple Obituary and Cannibal Corpse records came out and bands like Exhorder and stuff like that. I really like that stuff.

You grew up like in Sacramento right? Like in the 80s I think.

Sacramento and Sonoma. Sonoma is where I went to high school and then I went to college in Sacramento.

So that’s around when the early thrash scene was starting there too right? So you were probably into some of that weren’t you?

Oh absolutely, yeah. I was reading fanzines and going to San Francisco to see shows, when I could. I was a little young and then 45 minutes away so it was hard to get my mom to let me go to as many as I wanted to but I got to go to some key ones. I saw Death Angel quite a bit when they were really young and I was young and I saw Vio-lence and all those bands. Saw Metallica a couple of times before they were massive and then even after they were massive they came back and did shows in Petaluma when the black album came out so I’ve seen a million great shows being up in that area.

What bands have you been listening to lately?

A bunch of the old stuff. I love the new Carcass record. I love the new Overkill record and then I’m trying to think of newer bands. I love some of the Swedish kind of melodic throwback stuff where it’s more traditional stuff like Graveyard and some of those bands. God who else? Who should I be listening to?

Well let’s see I’m a big fan of Pallbearer. Their new album I’ve really liked a lot.

Yeah I picked it up but I haven’t played it much but I should check that out. I’ve got it.

Windhand out of Richmond, I really like them a lot too.

Say that again.

Windhand.

Windhand. No I don’t know them.

If you like that doomy stuff check them out. They just put out an album on Relapse last year, their first album on Relapse. It’s really good.

Oh ok.

It’s female vocals but it’s doom. There’s not a lot of bands that sound like that I don’t think but they pull it off really well.

Cool.

Brian Posehn

I have a few just straight up metal head questions that I wanted to ask you like, do you prefer Ozzy [Osbourne] or [Ronnie James] Dio in [Black] Sabbath?

Well now the answer is Ozzy but as a kid I didn’t get into Sabbath until Dio. I wasn’t really that well versed because it was a little before my time but I was in junior high and high school when Ozzy left and did the [Randy] Rhoads records and then when Dio joined up with Sabbath so Heaven And Hell and Mob Rules were my two favorites but now I’ve done my homework and I go a little deeper. I love the early Ozzy stuff. I listen to Sabbath non stop pretty much so.

Right on.

It’s all amazing. And like you heard with my kid I’m trying to… I’m not playing crazy metal for him yet. He hasn’t heard the really brutal or nuts stuff.

Haven’t gotten him into Cryptopsy yet?

The basics. I’ve got him on Sabbath and he knows both singers and I haven’t played any Ian Gillian for him or any of the other records. I’m starting him with the basics. I think it’s super important you know?

Yeah, definitely. Are you more of the Metallica fan or the Megadeth fan?

I love a bunch of Megadeth records but no at the time it was Metallica for sure and still. Those first four records are pretty perfect. But I was also, and still am, at the time a bigger Anthrax fan than Megadeth or Slayer. It was kind of Metallica one and Anthrax two for me.

So have you seen this Baby Metal thing that everybody has been talking about? Do you have any opinions on them?

Of course. Yeah man. Am I going to go see them? Probably not unless it was easy for me. If it was at some festival thing I would walk over and check it out but I think it’s funny and I don’t know why they didn’t come out 20 years ago. It just seems like something the Japanese would have already done, combining cute school girls with metal. I can’t believe they didn’t tour with Loudness 20 years ago.

You know Marty Friedman finally comes back to metal and then this stuff blows up.

Hahahaha yeah.

Do you listen to much black metal?

Not the really brutal kvlt stuff or you know, K-V-L-T version of that word. No, and I’ll tell you why. I’ll probably lose some metal cred for this but I’ve always had a problem with… can I cuss?

Yep.

I haven’t yet.

Nah this is on the internet man you can say whatever the fuck you want.

Oh right on. Well my son was in the car earlier now he’s out or we’re at the house but anyway, yeah man shitty production always bothered the fuck out of me. I bought those Venom records as a kid. Didn’t love them. Never loved them. [I] bought them because I thought that’s what I was supposed to do and then when I put them on… You know even the early Slayer, like I love Hell Awaits but the stuff before that… not produced well and if it’s not I just can’t get into it so that’s my problem with a lot of the original black metal. You know Mayhem and that early stuff, it hurts my ears. My precious, precious ears. But then I got into the probably false version. I like some Dimmu Borgir. I like some black but I feel like that’s not my area of expertise.

Have you heard of the band Liturgy?

Only by name. Are they one of the ones worth checking out?

Haha, uhh, well they’re sort of divisive. They are a bunch of kids from Brooklyn you know they ride bicycles and that kind of thing and they’re basically Brooklyn hipsters from Williamsburg. Well they’ve started a black metal band so I always like to ask people who they think is more trve in the black metal sense, Liturgy or Cradle Of Filth?

Hahaha. I uh, I don’t know. I think that Cradle Of Filth guy would have trouble getting on a bike with all the props and his make up and it would be hard to see with those crazy contact lenses in so maybe Liturgy is more metal.

Haha. Do you have any favorite albums of 2014 because the year’s wrapping up here?

Well, the new Exodus.

The return of [the late Exodus vocalist Paul] Baloff. [Ed. note: I knew I said the wrong name as soon as it came out of my mouth but his answer was too good to edit this part out.]

Yeah or no, of [Steve] Souza.

Haha yeah I wish it was the return of Baloff but that’s not going to happen.

That would be super metal man if he came back from the grave. An undead singer is the most metal singer you can have. That record was great. Fuck, you kind of caught me off guard. I should have been thinking about what my favorite shit is from this year. But like I said that last Carcass record I was listening to a lot.

Did you hear the new At The Gates?

Yeah, well no I bought it but I haven’t checked it out yet. I just got it. I love them but I hope it’s good. Is it good?

It’s not terrible.

Haha you’re selling the shit out of that.

Well it sounds like old At The Gates. It’s not going to be as good as Slaughter Of The Soul. You’ve got to just accept that. It’s not going to be that album. But at the same time it’s not a terrible album. It’s kind of like the new Black Sabbath album with Ozzy. It’s not horrible it’s just…

Right.

It’s not going to hold up to those classics but it’s not bad.

I think a lot you know, for doing comparable work, I think Carcass’s new record is comparable to Heartwork. It’s probably not classic status yet like that but I don’t know. It’s so hard. And then I’m working on that Scott Ian record, he and I we call ourselves grandpa metal. We make fun of each other for being kind of so set in our ways and you judge these bands on the classic albums and a ton of people think that Anthrax hasn’t ever done anything past Among The Living and [it] depends on your opinion. I do.

Like I said you’ve got to understand what it is going in. When people think it’s just going to be this…

Right.

The new At The Gates isn’t Slaughter Of The Soul but it’s still a good album. It’s got some great riffs on it.

Cool. Yeah I want to check it out. You know what I like is that new Slipknot record and again I’m probably losing cred for not loving Venom and liking Slipknot but whatever. It’s good man. If you like that band there’s some good stuff on there.

So do you really have anything on your iPod besides “Two Princes” by the Spin Doctors?

I actually don’t have “Two Princes” on my iPod.

So now in addition to being a metal head you’re also a big video game fan and I was kind of curious what you’re thinking about this whole #GamerGate thing that’s been going on.

I don’t even know what it is.

This whole reaction to feminism that’s going on in the video gaming world right now.

Oh man… I don’t know. Oh man no I’m not even going to get into it. The whole internet… haha “the whole internet,” I’m a grandpa for sure… Eh I don’t have time for any of that shit. I don’t know what #GamerGate is. Feminism in video games… I don’t know.

It’s a bunch of guys at like 4chan and Reddit [that] have been attacking a bunch of people that have been commenting about sexist things going on in video games and stuff and they’ve been publishing these women’s addresses on the internet and things like that to scare them.

Oh that’s not good.

But then they say they’re doing it all to try to make it so there’s more honesty in journalism or something. I don’t know it doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me either but I’m not the biggest gamer but it’s been all over Twitter.

Yeah I just try not to spend too much time on Twitter or getting into online fights. [There is] not enough hours in the day to care about that shit.

Yeah it’s gotten to the point where Intel I think was pulling ads off of sites. It’s snowballed out of control. At this point I’m not even sure what it’s really about any more.

Huh.

Anyways, so moving on… hahaha So you’ve stopped smoking pot and I was wondering do you still drink beer because there’s a whole craft beer revolution going on right now and there’s a lot of breweries in DC that have ties to metal as well like DC Brau, Port City, Adroit Theory, and in Baltimore their Oliver Ales makes a beer for The Sword and Brewer’s Art makes an Ozzy beer so I’m just curious, are you into craft beer at all?

Yeah but it’s like asking me about new black metal. I’ll drink it but really I really am not that knowledgeable about it. It’s not something I follow or care about but I enjoy beer and will try ones that are recommended to me and that kind of thing. Boring answer but it’s the truth I just kind of don’t give a fuck haha.

I mean it’s just like music, sometimes you have to start somewhere and have someone push you in the right direction ya know?

Right, right, right.

Anyway thanks so much for your time Brian. It’s been a lot of fun and I can’t wait to see you…

Yeah man sorry. Sorry my son was on the phone in the beginning it’s just timing wise he was in the car.

Nah it’s all good man. [It] sounds like you’re raising him to be a hell raiser already so that’s pretty cool.

Haha yeah, [I’m] working on it man.

Alright man well I can’t wait to see you this Thursday, November 20th at the Black Cat.

Yep, thanks man.

Alright take it easy. Stay metal man.

You too.

Interview with Bill Ward of Black Sabbath

On Tuesday, April 8th I was given the opportunity to interview one of the founding fathers of heavy metal, Bill Ward, the original drummer for Black Sabbath. He played with the band through the Ozzy years and on the first album with Dio as well as on Born Again then came back into the fold in the late 90s when the band reformed for their reunion tours. In November of 2011 the four original members of Black Sabbath reunited again and announced they’d be creating their first album together since the late 70s. However issues arose and Bill Ward ended up not being a part of the new album. He hasn’t slowed down at all though and one of the things he’s done is work on a new visual art project called Absence Of Corners. We’re really lucky because they’ve decided that the public viewing of this collection will be in Annapolis, Maryland, and on May 9th and 10th Bill Ward will be on hand to speak about the pieces himself! Even better, if you purchase (here) one of the very limited prints you’ll be invited to a special reception on May 10th where you can meet Bill Ward yourself, have him sign your piece, get your photo with him and even ask him any questions you think I might have left out of this interview (more details here). This isn’t a traveling art display, this is the only exhibit so don’t miss it!

This interview is 32 minutes long and we covered a wide range of topics from the art exhibition to his time with Black Sabbath, his time after and even what new metal bands he’s into (spoiler: there’s a lot of them). I suggest reading along while listening to the stream of the interview as I’ve packed this post with photos and links related to what we’re talking about. You can also download an mp3 of the audio here. I hope you all enjoy this interview as much as I did! My words are in bold below and you can click the orange play button to start the stream.

Bill Ward

This is Metal Chris of DCHeavyMetal.com and today I’ve got a very special guest with me, Bill Ward, the original drummer of Black Sabbath. Mr. Ward will be in Annapolis, Maryland on Friday, May 9th and Saturday, May 10th at the Annapolis Collection Gallery showcasing his new Rhythm On Canvas visual artwork series known as Absence Of Corners. The viewing is open to the public for free and limited prints will be available for purchase by fans. Anyone who does purchase a piece will be invited to an exclusive VIP reception with Bill Ward where he’ll be available to sign your piece and answer a few questions and just talk to fans as well. So to start off Bill, why don’t you tell me about how this Absence Of Corners project came to be.

Thank you. It started back in the spring, I think it was the spring of 2013, and we were approached by [the] two main guys in Scene Four, that would be Cory [Danziger] and Ravi [Dosaj]. They’re the technicians and the producers and they had already established this new way of producing art in terms of drummers just playing their drums completely in the dark and having lighted sticks or lighted brushes and just playing whatever they wanted to play, for the most part, and taking all kinds of pictures. And the all kinds of pictures really was all kinds of pictures but at times I think we probably had between two and three photographers right in and out of the kit. There were so many different lights that were going on. And that’s how all this started. We were just approached, we liked the idea, Liese Rugo was heading it, and Liese said let’s think about this and go ahead and do it. It might be a nice change for you right now so I thought OK. So that’s how we went ahead you know, it’s quite simple. That’s how it started.

Did you use your own drum kit for this?

Oh yes sir, yes I did. Yeah in fact I used the master kit. When I say a master kit that would be a kit that I would normally use with Black Sabbath. It was set up in its drum rehearsal mode and we went in and I just slammed. I slammed for probably an hour and 45 minutes. We just jammed, jammed, jammed everything out, yeah.

Wow. Now so they took a lot of photos here. Did you have any input as far as to which ones they used of which angles they used or anything like that?

No, not at all. I stayed out of all that. I followed direction. I let them tell me what they wanted. As far as the playing I went wherever I wanted but as far as any kind of cameras or anything to do with their end of it, I stayed well out of all that [and] let them do their thing. I only started to collaborate at the point when I began to view the pictures. And when I viewed them you know it’s like… it took me a while to digest everything but the collaboration began when they said, “Well Bill can you suggest some titles,” and I love writing. I love coming up with words and things like this so I said OK. That’s when I started to realize what each picture meant to me personally and it’s when I came up with the titles and then we just started to gain some depth as to where it was all going so it was a nice collaboration. That was very enjoyable actually.

I saw you made some videos that describe the naming process of these pieces and I found the one for “Soundshock” particularly interesting. Can you describe to me what sound shock is exactly and is it something you deal with on a daily basis?

My idea of sound shock is pretty tricky stuff because it’s something that, through all the years and years and years of playing on stage, and playing very loud, I think that there are some prices to pay. One is in the way that I perceive the sound of right now, the sound of your voice, Chris. The sound of the room around me, the sound of the fan that we have on right now. And I can hear, I guess, well enough but sound shock becomes more apparent if I went into a super market or a grocery store or into a restaurant where there’s multiple voices and multiple sounds. Train station, airport, anything like that and I have a very difficult time listening to things that are right next to me. If someone’s talking to me I can barely hear them but I can actually hear things that are going on two aisles over so my hearing has become unique I guess. Not unique to me. I think other people have this phenomena also. It’s very strange. When I first started getting this it was a bit scary you know. I was just wondering what was going on. It’s been going on now for a number of years. It’s something that I’ve definitely gotten used to. It can also be called mixer’s ears. Just recently I’ve spent an awful lot of time in the studios finishing up a piece of work I’ve been trying to get done there for quite some time and only the other day I was in the studio and I can only listen for about three hours now and I went, you know what? My ears have completely gone. And I was hearing things that weren’t there and you know that happens to a lot of musicians when there at the final stages mixing and things like that. But what happens with mixer’s ears is when we break, take five, sit outside or whatever, the sound of being outside is a little bit different than what it was three hours before going into the studio. So I have that too. There’s imbalance and incorrect perceiving of sound. I think that’s the best way I can describe it. I did see a documentary a few months back now. It was about a soldier that had been in Iraq and they were focused on this soldier and what he went through when he walked into supermarkets having been around bombs and explosions and I was intrigued by what he was sharing because I thought oh my god. I said I feel the same way. I feel just like this guy, the things that he was going through. I went to see a couple of doctors to talk about it, neurologists. So we’re still researching it ya know, we’re still going through it and I’m sure there’s other musicians, I’m sure I’m not unique in this at all, other musicians that are either on their way and got a better understanding of it. It’s not like something that I’m desiring to fix. It’s something about learning exactly like, oh this is what I live with now and I have an explanation for why things can sometimes sound really strange. Especially in a restaurant. I can hear the other people talking three tables over [louder] than I can my own wife whose in front of me. She doesn’t think of– my wife doesn’t mind ya know? She’s used to me being kind of crazy you know so, hahaha, so it can be taken as quite rude I think. It’ll be interesting to see what happens in Annapolis when I start talking with everyone.

“Soundshock”

Are you interested in doing more visual art projects in the future?

I think I would have to really take a look and see what it might be. There are some other things that I would like to get to and it’s trying to have the time to get to it. So I did have something else on the back burner but it would not be working the same way that I did with Ravi and Cory in terms of playing drums to create art. But however it depends. I like to keep an open mind. One never knows. It could be something that’s completely different so if it appeals and I can feel the nature of it and it has some substance and it can be meaningful to other people then you know I’d look at it, yeah. I think I’d say yes to that, to that question. Yeah.

Are there any specific pieces about Black Sabbath or your time with the band or your time after?

I think that there are actually and I didn’t realize that until after. It was during the time I mentioned earlier, Chris. There was a period that happened where we started to collaborate, you know myself and Liese and Ravi and Cory, in terms of going into each piece and what it meant. That’s when I– it started to hit me. It really came quite strong actually. There were some things that were primarily related to the turbulent emotional stuff that I was going through after the contractual agreement [with Black Sabbath] couldn’t be sorted out. You know it just couldn’t be sorted out. And I just felt so horrible about everything about that not being able to be sorted out as I believe they did but I’m not going to quote them or anything else. I read something from Tony [Iommi, Black Sabbath guitar player] that he was not particularly happy either so, well neither was I. But that turbulence and that emotional upheaval, I think some part of it may have reflected through my playing. There’s that one piece, I’ll just use the most poignant piece if you like, it’s called “Grief.” And somebody had put the picture, a huge picture of “Grief,” and it was leaning against some cases, we were in the warehouse, I was up at the warehouse just signing off a bunch of paintings and what have you. And I hadn’t seen “Grief” prior to going to the warehouse, and I turned around, it’s almost like I felt something in my back and I turned around and I looked down and I saw this– I made out a face immediately. I was about maybe fifteen feet from the painting, Chris. I just peered into it and I went, “Oh my god.” And I said, “What’s this?” And they were smiling and they said, “That’s one of your paintings, Bill.” You know and I said, “Oh my god you’ve got to be kidding.” And I came up with the title immediately. It’s so sad. It was so, so, so, so, so sad. And that’s exactly how I felt about it you know. Even as we speak I’m still recovering from all of this you know. And “Grief” would have been my number one choice in attaching something to the emotional well being, or the unemotional well being, of that period. 2012, 2013, very, very, very tough years. Would you like me to give you a couple more examples?

“Grief”

Sure, yeah.

“Grief,” it’s really quite morbid looking. Kind of right up my street, haha. It’s very gray. It’s gray looking and I think to really feel “Grief” you have to stand about ten feet away from the picture. And you see it and it’s just this tormented soul. It’s just really… not OK at all. Of course, technically, Ravi and Cory showed me in the picture where my arms were and what I was doing at that particular point from a drumming point of view, not what I was actually playing in terms of notes. But because I couldn’t see, I couldn’t make it out. You know was I playing with brushes, what was going on there you know?

Yeah.

It scares me to be honest with you. It really scares me. It really bothered me, bothered me a lot. But at the same time it brought a semblance of relief because I thought, you know what? I’m in a lot of pain man. And all of this stuff that we’re talking about, Absence Of Corners, became more of a therapy session for me. A long therapy session which is still continuing. And it turned into that. I didn’t expect that. Nobody planned that. But that’s what it became then you know. And I’ve discussed Absence Of Corners with people from all over the world and they give me their– how it touched them you know. What it means to them and we sit down and we rap for two or three hours you know talking about emotions and what have you so it’s been very fulfilling. Very, very fulfilling spiritually.

That’s good.

Yeah, it’s great. One of the things also that’s connected with the turbulence that I felt, emotional turbulence [is] this one that I have it’s called “We Focus. We Persevere.” And that one as well I can see myself. I think I was actually playing jazz because it looks like I’m using the brushes in the picture. That one was particularly nice. It was about drummers and that comes back from the way that I was brought up as a drummer not only as a child but into my teenage years and then of course into my later teenage years when I was 18 of course I’d been playing with Tony for two years. When I was 18 and we were already in some pretty good bands you know and Black Sabbath was just around the corner. I didn’t know that but it’s just the influences. I look at the picture and I can actually see my study. I can actually see that I’m focused and I’m really enjoying playing. And that came from a lot of discipline and a lot of listening to blues and jazz which were all incredibly influential inside Black Sabbath. In fact I think more people now are recognizing just how much blues and jazz was inside Black Sabbath and how we utilized that. How we would have our grooves if you like and how that structured itself inside everything that became metal. But that’s a particular favorite of mine, that one, Chris. We overcome. We persevere. No matter what. We come through. We have to ascend our difficulties and we have to come through and that’s part of the action of my life. It’s a very strong, living statement for other drummers primarily and of course for other people or interested parties that might be interested in them. If they can receive something from those things in terms of heightened senses then more power to them. It’s beautiful you know. I didn’t invent it. It’s just something that is part of my life as well and part of a lot of people’s lives and I’ve seen this happen with a lot of other drummers who are friends of mine, some of the people who have passed away, that I dearly love. So yeah, that’s a little bit about that one.

“We Focus. We Persevere.”

OK now in November you did an interview with Rock Cellar Magazine and in that interview [read it here] you said that you hadn’t listened to any of the new Black Sabbath album, 13, except for maybe about 40 seconds of [the promotional track] “God Is Dead?” Have you listened to that album since then?

No and I probably won’t.

You don’t think you ever will?

I, I– Maybe if I reach a point of serenity where I’m able to give it a listen but no there’s nothing of value in there for me to listen to. I love the guys. I really hope that they receive blessings and wonderful things in their life. [I’m] communicating with Terry [“Geezer” Butler, Black Sabbath bass player], I’m communicating with Tony, privately. We always send our very, very best wishes to each other and our love to each other. But no I’m not interested in the album. It was something that I wanted to play on. I was completely able to play on it. There’s no question in my heart at all. [This refers to comments Ozzy Osbourne made (here) about Bill Ward not being on the new Black Sabbath album because he was out of shape.] So you know it’s still something that I don’t care, I don’t care to listen to it. Even if it was the most brilliant album in the world I don’t care to listen to it.

That leads me to the question, do you ever see yourself as a part of Black Sabbath again?

Well a lot of things have happened to me. Starting in September, 2013, I had a horrible illness which I’m still recovering from and it created some other things that I am still recovering from. That’s one of the reasons why I didn’t come to [my previously scheduled appearance in] Annapolis you know. So aside from me now having to do a lot of work to gain my health and my strength back, you know and I’d be the first to admit it if I can’t cut it physically as a drummer then my answer would be no. I would not be prepared to play with Sabbath you know. I would never, ever, ever elude to being able to play with Sabbath if my health wasn’t absolutely smack on. And my health right now is not bad but it’s not good enough to certainly play in any band never mind Black Sabbath. I have to get a lot stronger than where I am. I lost a lot of weight. I’ve got to gain all my muscle back. I lost all my muscle. And I’m doing some stick practice but if I was in a good position where I felt strong enough I can overcome the hits that I took, the verbal hits, I can overcome all that stuff. I can overcome you know just the shut down and the way that I felt and everything else. I can overcome all of those things. All of the things that were like at the time just like– what the hell? I can certainly recover from all that stuff actually. I can do it pretty good. You know in fact I’ve recovered from most of it as I’m speaking to you this morning. I’ll always have an open mind to playing with Black Sabbath. I love the band. I miss them terribly. And so my answer would be leaning towards if something could be worked out. Something that I could live with and I’m talking politically now, contractually. And not the kind of things that I’ve done in the past. I’m talking about the very core of what I talked about in my big statement of February 2012 [read it here]. If we can come to some terms and we’re all OK with each other and the most important thing for me is being able to know that I can play drums the way that I want to be otherwise I wouldn’t even enter into any kind of conversation with them if I knew that I wasn’t back on the mark. Then I would be moving forward. I think that a lot of fans have suffered horribly through these undertakings of the last couple years and I fully, fully blame the inconsiderateness of just a few people who created, and I won’t talk about who, but a few people who created such a huge wasteland of real, real pain when everyone was just so excited to see the original band with an original record. And I’d already stated my boundaries quite early in all this. It didn’t come overnight. It wasn’t a shock. You know it wasn’t something that suddenly happened. We’d been negotiating for over 15 months. Things like that so. But I have to be careful in overstating because there’s still a political agenda attached to this. So I’ve definitely got an open mind. I miss playing with Terry, Geezer, just horribly. I absolutely miss him to death. And I miss playing with Tony just… every day. I mean every single day I– it just blows me away man. And obviously I miss Oz [Ozzy Osbourne, Black Sabbath vocalist]. I’ve had to– with Ozzy I– I’ve lost a friend as far as I’m concerned. A man that I dearly loved, and I still dearly love but I’ve had to really now readjust just how much I’m going to trust and love him. He fired back on some pretty mean stuff in the press so. And I’ve gone OK. Like with any of us when we get hurt we’re going to pull back our love and our considerations for another human being when they kick out at you and you know. So that’s been a big loss.

In the last couple years in the world of metal there have been several high profile drummers that have either been kicked out of their bands or just kind of you know similar situations to you I think where there’s contract issues and things where I think the drummers feel like they’re not getting at least a respectable compensation for what they’re doing. I’m talking about like big bands here like Dave Lombardo of Slayer, Mike Portnoy leaving Dream Theater, and I’m sure there’s others as well. But do you think drummers right now, in the world of modern metal, do you think they’re just being under valued?

Yeah there’s something going on. Just for the record I know Mike and Dave Lombardo is a very good friend of mine. Me and Dave have had many Indian food– much Indian food and we’ve discussed these things in the last two years, that’s for sure. Yeah, I think what’s going on is we find the key players and the other players have less value and its become some kind of new modern thing, modern thinking. It’s like the other guys don’t count as much or they can be replaced. Let’s just focus on who we think are the stars in the band and you’ll see it all the time. It’s been going on for a long, long time. A lot of other bands have adopted this similar idea. It’s been around for a while. I think it comes out of a managerial idea, for the most part. Not a very good managerial idea at all. But it’s just something that’s going on and I’ve had private discussions with a lot of people about this and I think it’s not only necessarily aimed at drummers I think it’s aimed at other people as well. And it’s not just because the guys are being [night] owls or whatever you know. It’s nothing to do with that. Back in the day that was like it’s about him, it’s about him and let’s blame him and that and that and that you know. And it’s not about me. I absolutely refuse to take any responsibility of blame that’s been thrown at me. I will be accountable to the fans and I will be responsible to the fans because they are extremely important to me. I think what we’re seeing is something that’s been going on for a while that’s starting to take seed and we’re now seeing the results of defocusing other people and we’re seeing that more focus goes on the primary players and that’s been going on since, well I’ll probably get into trouble with this, since all of the teams. [Mick] Jagger and [Keith] Richards and all the way through. And I’m not saying for one second that the [Rolling] Stones‘ set up is like that OK. I’m not saying that. It’s a very interesting subject and as more is being revealed I can probably be a little more revealing but it’s so bloody political that I have to watch what I’m saying. Because otherwise– I know that there are some people that would probably love to sue my ass and I would think they would get a great deal of pleasure from that.

Well I’m not trying to get you in any trouble here either so…

No, no I know. I know. No, I’m enjoying the interview but I just have to be careful you know. And a lot of the times I wear a lot of my stuff on my sleeve. I’m so bloody transparent and I hate having to play hopscotch but I feel like I’ve been as honest as I can be with you right now.

“Solidarity”

You are also the host of a radio show called Rock 50. You play a lot of metal, both older and current and I was really surprised that you are a fan of a band that was a favorite of mine growing up. You are a big fan of Cryptopsy it turns out.

Oh definitely, yeah.

Phenomenal drummer Flo [Mounier] in that band. Are there any other bands that people might not really expect the drummer from Black Sabbath to be into? Any other modern metal bands like that?

Oh God I go right across the board. When I play my radio show I only play bands that I sincerely really like, really, really like. That I’m a fan of. These are some of my long standing bands. The first one has got to be Slipknot you know. I got a couple of guys in Slipknot that are real good friends of mine.

They’re another band that’s recently had drummer issues as well with Joey Jordison leaving.

Yeah. It’s hard for me to say anything about that but Slipknot’s one of my favorite bands. An example Sunday night, I’d just gone Sunday night I was watching– Vinny Appice used to be in the band… Kill Devil Hill. Anyway the reason why I went to see them play was because there is a couple of guys in the band that I know and love. Especially I went this time because it just so happened that Johnny Kelly, who is a friend of mine he played drums with Type O Negative, Johnny has replaced Vinny. When Johnny told me that I was like, “Oh my god.” And they were playing only a mile from where I’m speaking. The band came down. I went to see Johnny and Rex [Brown] was playing bass from Pantera and they’re fucking outstanding man. Outstanding bass player. Johnny did a great job. The other guy, Dewey [Bragg] the singer, I’ve known Dewey for years man, years and years and years. And they absolutely kicked ass man. They were great. We were in this little club. Nice club, at least they’re doing a shout out for metal. It’s called the Gas Lamp down off Pacific Coast Highway here in Longbeach. There’s another band that was supporting them called Seeds Of War and I really liked Seeds Of War as well. I like anything Mastodon. I’m a huge Mastodon fan. Slayer all the way down the line man. All the way down the line. Megadeth and Skeletonwitch. We met them when they were first new and I’ve always supported them. Always played their records on our radio show. Their production is getting better and better and better. Their songs are tight man [their] playing has become better. They’re really good you know. So I’m right in the mix. I’m right in the middle of it all and I feel completely at home. I sit there with my metal brothers and my metal sisters and drink my tea and I just like to be by myself. I like to sit nice and quiet and watch the bands and everyone’s nice enough to come up and say hello. I just look at them all and it’s just a wonderful part of my life. It’s a very sacred part of my life. I love metal.

DC has quite a few metal bands from this area and I was kind of curious are there any from the DC area or Maryland that you’re a fan of?

Oh I’m sure if you name me the bands I can tell you instantly.

Some of our bigger ones are Clutch, Pig Destroyer, Darkest Hour, Deceased

OK can you stop? Haha. We play Deceased, Darkest Hour, Clutch and what was the first?

Pig Destroyer.

Pig Destroyer. I think that they elude me, I’m not sure about Pig Destroyer. All the other bands have been regularly played on Rock 50 for years.

Pentagram and The Obsessed, they’re both from here too.

OK, yeah. I know Pentagram.

The Obsessed was Wino’s old band before he started [with] Saint Vitus.

Oh yeah Wino OK yeah.

But he’s from DC originally and his band out here was called The Obsessed.

OK, yeah. I don’t think I’ve heard The Obsessed but I’ve heard of Wino before.

Yeah well, they’re not as big as Saint Vitus but to DC people you know we love ’em.

Yeah of course. You’ve got your home grown metal man. It’s like that’s where it’s at you know for sure. It’s got to keep rolling. The doors are open and the sky’s the limit. And I’m just glad to be a part of the journey. I’m glad I’m on the bus and just riding with everybody. It’s a real honor. It’s a real privilege. I was sitting at the side of the stage. I’m like ten feet away from Dewey when he was singing the other night. You know sitting on the side of the stage and some of the audience were looking saying, “Who’s that gray bearded old man sitting there?” I don’t give a fuck you know. I’m on stage rocking out man.

That’s the way to do it.

Yeah, I’m a fan. That’s just where I’m at you know.

So how often do you go to see live shows these days?

Well, since I got sick not that often because if I go into population, in other words I’m not coming in back stage, if I’m in population I have to take a bunch of security guys with me. And it’s not because I’m scared in case somebody’s going to beat me up. I’m scared in case somebody’s going to run up and give me a big hug and it’s so painful right now cause they cut my stomach open three or four times so it’s still pretty sore even though it’s been– January the 7th was the last operation, January 7th, 2014. So I’m afraid that, haha, somebody’s going to give me a big hug. They’ve already done it OK. They’ve gone oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. Whenever we go out anywhere when I know I’m going to be in public we have to have a little security shield say, “Don’t touch him. Don’t hug him so hard,” you know. Haha. It’s pretty crazy man but it’s what it is right now and I laugh about it. I like getting hugs from people. I love people. To answer your question I like to get out a little bit to be honest with you. Obviously if we’re touring with Black Sabbath then I’d see all the bands. Any band that was playing I’d watch them all the time or I’d go out afterwards, maybe see a little jazz in a club.

You also have another solo project in the works, Accountable Beasts I think I heard the name thrown around.

Accountable Beasts and right now it’s 9:15 here in Pacific time and in about an hour and a half I’ll be on a mixing board. We had to stop the final, final, final mix of “Accountable Beasts” the song on Sunday because my ears went. We were talking earlier about sound shock. My ears went and I went, “Oh my God I just don’t know if it’s there or not.” So this morning we’re going in with fresh ears and we’re just signing off on just a couple of little things. It’s like OK we got that, it’s there, oh that does exist you know. You weren’t dreaming it it’s still there. And once we’ve got that that’s another song done. I’ve got two more songs that are ready for final mix. They’ve already been mixed but they have now to do a final, finite mix, which is making sure the balances are OK. Does it feel good? Have we got everything there? Are we happy? Can we live with it? We gotta kind of go through that kind of measuring stick and that’s it and that album goes to mastering.

When do you think we’ll expect to see that, either download or physical form that we could actually buy?

I think we might be able to make an announcement because Liese Rugo, she’s my publicist and she watches very carefully about the things that I might say, haha, and say “Don’t say it’s coming out in six months. Wait until we know it’s coming out in six months,” but I think that we’ll probably be making some kind of an announcement pretty soon. On our timetable right now, this morning, we’re hoping to be finished with the two songs but I know I’ve been whistling that tune for a while but I can’t see anything in front of me that could can stop me. And I thought “Don’t say that either,” you know because I was doing this back in September and I got a perforated diverticulitis so I better not say anything at all. Haha. So I’m just going to keep it nice and quiet and say we’re on our way to really, really coming to the end of this album and more will be revealed and we’re going to let everybody know when we’re in a better position to get more information out. I think that’s the most polite way of putting it right now.

Well I’m coming to the end of my questions here. One thing I wanted to know though is what is your favorite Black Sabbath album?

The first one. I like the naiveté. I like the camaraderie then. It was a band. It was a real band. It was everything that I thought a real band– or while I was learning what a real band ought to be. Camaraderie, it was the four musketeers. It was everything. And hard, tight. Just playing a lot of gigs. It was a live band and then they went and put us in a studio for 24 hours, 36 hours, whatever it was. And they managed to get us on a piece of tape, Tom Allom and Rodger Bain, they just got us on a piece of tape and it was just absolutely incredible so it’s because of that. It’s because of the naiveté and the spontaneity and it’s all that and I listen to it very, very fondly.

Black Sabbath cover art

It’s been a real honor for me to get a chance to talk to you today. I’m a big fan of metal and all its genres but the thing that got me into it all was when I first got a copy of We Sold Our Souls For Rock And Roll and nothing was the same for me in my life since then. The chance to speak to you today has been a real honor and something I won’t ever forget.

Thanks, Chris. Thank you I really appreciate that. I’ve really enjoyed myself. Thank you and I look forward to seeing you when I get into Annapolis.

Yeah I can’t wait. I’ll be very excited there and I’m excited to see your work as well. It should be a fun day and this winter seems to be finally ending so hopefully it will be very nice around here too.

Very good.

Alright well thanks so much for your time this has been an awesome interview.

You’re very welcome.

Well take it easy, have a good afternoon.

And you.

Interview With Evan Harting After Maryland Deathfest XI

Maryland Deathfest XI ran from Thursday, May 23rd, 2013 through Sunday, May 26th in Baltimore and uncharacteristically there were some issues with the fest which left many people unhappy with the way things were run. I contacted Evan Harting, one of the two co-organizers of Maryland Deathfest, and he agreed to do an interview with me to address many of these issues. The following 30 minute interview was recorded in the evening of Tuesday, May 28th, 2013. My words are the ones in bold. You can listen to the interview by clicking the orange play button on the player below or you can download the 28mb mp3 of the interview by clicking here.

UPDATE: Ryan Taylor, the other MDF co-organizer, made a few clarifying comments about this interview on the MDF message board, which you can read here.

Hi, this is Metal Chris of DCHeavyMetal.com and it’s just a couple days after Maryland Deathfest XI. The four day festival in Baltimore, Maryland every Memorial Day weekend is the biggest underground metal festival in the United States and heavy metal fans come from all over the world to see dozens of metal bands play. For the most part I had a great time though there were a few bumps in the road. Maryland Deathfest has a reputation for being organized and run very well though this year there were some issues that came up. Attendees took to social media sites and there was a lot of anger and negativity towards the fest sometimes for things well beyond their control. I’ve seen rumors and misinformation along with some issues that I myself witnessed all being talked about on sites like Facebook at Twitter. I love Maryland Deathfest. It is one of the highlights of my year every year and so I reached out to Evan Harting, one of the two co-founders of the festival, to help clear up some of the issues and complaints about this year’s festival in his own words. So hello Evan, thanks for taking the time to do this interview.

No problem.

Now before we get into some of the heavier stuff I’d like to first thank you for bringing together such great bands year after year. Because of Maryland Deathfest I’ve gotten to see some bands perform live that I never thought I would see in my life and I’ve gotten the chance to check out some great up and coming bands as well. So my first question for you is: what were your favorite performances at Maryland Deathfest XI?

I didn’t get to watch any of them.

Alright, you were that busy.

Yeah. By far the busiest year for me.

Now ever since Sonar’s co-owner Daniel McIntosh was arrested and convicted on drug trafficking charges last year [details here] there’s been a lot of questions about where Maryland Deathfest XI would take place. It seemed like you and Ryan Taylor [the other co-organizer of Maryland Deathfest] kind of settled for Sonar this year, which is now rebranded as Paparazzi by their new owners, and the tent set up, which I don’t think many people were that happy about, seemed like you guys were just kind of trying to do the best you could with a bad situation. When exactly did you find out that Paparazzi did not have a suitable stage for Maryland Deathfest bands to play on?

We found out pretty late in the game. We were looking for new venue options and our head of security works with Paparazzi now and he came to us [and] said that the new owners would really like for us to have it there again and it seemed like some of the other options were kind of like falling apart and such. So we decided that we’d at least hear them out. Give them the chance to at least see what they had in mind. It seemed like it was going to work out fine [and we] might as well have it there another year. The biggest thing for us was just [that] we wanted to have an inside component and the proximity to the hotels is ideal for us. You know we want to have people near their hotels so they can just stumble home at the end of the night and not have to worry about it. Those are the biggest things for us so it worked out that way. And the new owners had lots of ideas of how we can expand and make it better and all this stuff so that’s what we decided to do. And they told us we can use the building the way we have in the past. Still have our inside stage and everything like that. So that’s what we were planning on and they did say that they were making renovations to the place and making it different but that was the extent of it. So we booked the entire festival and then we came down to the venue to check it out after the renovations had been made. And we walked into that room and were like, wow. We cannot use this at all. We are screwed.

Yeah. So how did the tent come up as a solution?

That was pretty much the only other option at that point. We couldn’t use the inside. We’d already sold a lot of tickets for Thursday’s [indoor only] show and the portion that was going to be inside and we didn’t want to have a completely outside thing. Certain bands count on having an inside show. That’s what they want. That’s a part of the agreement with them. Originally our first backup plan was [that] we were going to use part of the parking lot right there and kind of wall it in. So that would be kind of like a tented stage for us. But that did not come together and we didn’t know about that happening until kind of the last minute as well. So we, kind of at the last minute, decided we would have to put up an entire tent on the street.

Now was there any difference in regards to the fire code and noise curfew from the tent stage and the other outdoor stages?

No. It’s the same.

Are you considering holding the fest at the same location next year?

Absolutely not.

Many bands were cut off while still performing at the fest this year. Sometimes these were even the headliners. I saw Bolt Thrower, Kommandant, Pentagram, Venom, they all got cut off this year. What was the reason for this?

We have a very strict noise curfew. We have to abide by that. If we don’t then we get fined a lot of money. Venom knew about it and they continued to play so we literally had to pull the plug on them and it looked bad on our part but there’s nothing we could do about it. They knew they had to stop at that time but they decided to keep going. So when we pulled the plug, we’re the bad guys. So that sucked.

The one band I saw that didn’t get cut off was Sleep. They ran about ten minutes over so why weren’t they cut off?

I don’t really know to be honest. At that time I was in the middle of a million other things and I didn’t even know about that to be honest. But Venom also took their time setting up and I don’t remember exactly what the deal was but they should have gone on earlier.

I think everyone’s in agreement that the fest has really outgrown the streets outside of the Sonar/Paparazzi building. So what kind of options are you considering next year? Like maybe [the] Powerplant Live! area or a camp ground kind of set up or– I’m really hoping it’s not on a fucking cruise ship, that’s all.

Yeah it will be on a cruise ship actually… no. We don’t really know yet. You know we just wanted to get through this one before getting started on the next one. But we don’t give ourselves more than a week of rest before planning for the next one. Yeah we don’t really know yet. Powerplant area is unlikely just because there’s so many bars that have their own thing going on. It would be hard to work out a deal with that and also I know the people that are involved, the owners. I’m sure that they would want tons of money from us just to even have it there. I mean anything’s possible but I just don’t see that happening. And also it would be a lot smaller. Sometimes they do free shows in the outside area. It still doesn’t hold as many people as we would need. We could pretty much put it anywhere. A parking lot or park or something like that.

Maybe the parking lot between the two stadiums right there in downtown?

That’s one of the options we were looking at before deciding to have it at Paparazzi. So that’s also an option. We just have to weigh the options and decide which one will work out the best for us. Then we’ll have to deal with, are we getting shuttles to take people to and from the hotels because they won’t be able to walk to them any more? We really want to avoid that but I don’t really see any other way around it at this point.

Now I noticed that most of the security working the main festival grounds were some of the same team of guys who have been there, you know, the past several years. Many of them were wearing Sonar shirts which I thought was odd since Sonar doesn’t really exist any more. How exactly was the security team put in place for this year’s fest?

It’s the same security crew for the most part that we’ve worked with that worked for Sonar. The head of security, he’s awesome and he knows what he’s doing and his core group of guys, we’ve never had any problems with them. They know what they’re doing and they are, for the most part, very friendly to the people and everything. We enjoy having them. When he has to hire people from different venues and people that are not familiar with this at all, they are the ones we’ve had some issues with over the weekend.

OK so what happened with the no studded jackets or belts policy that suddenly arose early on Saturday? I had heard rumors that somehow Phil Anselmo of Down was involved in that or something. Is that true and if not how did that policy even get [put] in place?

It was basically a misunderstanding. It does have something to do with Down because they had a security rider that does enforce those things but I think that’s more for different types of concerts they’ve done. I have talked to their agent about it a while back and he said, “Don’t worry about it. We’re not going to enforce that at the fest it’ll be fine.” And then they get there and their security guy said that we need to enforce all of that and he didn’t know anything that I’ve worked out with the agent previously. So that’s why that was going on and we had to really talk to him about it and he eventually was like “It’s fine, at your discretion just do what you want” so we lifted that. But Phil himself didn’t seem to care about enforcing that at all so I’m not really sure exactly where that started.

Alright. Now one of the problems that affected almost everyone attending the fest at some point this weekend was the long lines, especially on Sunday. There seemed to be a lot of confusion about whether wrist bands got you into the venue without a wait, as they had previous years, or whether that did not happen. And this confusion wasn’t just among the attendees, it was also among the staff that were working the door. The security at the door seemed very under manned at many points throughout the weekend. I went to the SoundStage on Sunday to see Ilsa play and when I came back to the main grounds I walked over and there was this huge line wrapping beyond the parking lot down the street, and when I first walked up there were literally two people checking bags at the door, which I thought was probably the big bottle neck right there. Were there supposed to be more people searching bags and if so where were they?

Yeah there definitely should have been more people at the front handling that. There should have been people there earlier setting up a system and that did not happen. We seem to have an issue with that every year. As many times as we meet and reiterate how important it is that we get the line moving something always seems to go wrong and it just doesn’t happen when it’s supposed to. That’s just one of the issues that we know how we’re going to deal with it for the next year and that’s all we can really do with it at this point. Just learn from the mistakes and move on and know how to improve for the next [Deathfest].

Cause one of the things about these lines too is it made it very impractical to go back and forth between venues if you had the passes that let you. And it resulted in a lot of people missing a lot of bands because some of those bands were stacked very close to each other on that schedule. So you know you walk ten minutes and then you stand in line an hour and you’re missing stuff. I know you guys really trust, again, the security team but is it possible [that] like how Deathfest has outgrown Sonar that they’ve possibly outgrown the security team as well and is it time to bring in a new group of people that are used to bigger events like this?

Well one thing that we’ve briefly discussed even over the weekend and since the weekend is that we have to have a security company. We can’t just hire a bunch of our buddies to do it, there has to be a company. So we’re fine with having just a core group of guys that we’re used to. Just like, you know, even if it’s a very small number of them. We’re fine with that. But other than that, it’s likely that we actually are going to just hire our own people. People who actually know what’s going on and we know there won’t be any issues with.

OK have you considered maybe opening the doors earlier before the bands start? This year I think it was really underestimated how many people were going to be interested in seeing Speedwolf and they played very early on Sunday. They got that full page of worship, basically, written about them in the official MDF program and that probably got a lot more interest in them as well and it seemed like the door people were just not ready for that and with the door time being 1:15 and I think they went on about 35 minutes after that, there was just no way to get that many people into the venue that quickly so maybe earlier door times next year like before the first band?

Yeah, for sure.

OK cool. That’s sounds really good. One thing this year too, there seemed to be problems even just getting out of the venue, the main grounds at least, after the final bands played each night, especially after Venom played on Sunday. You heard people chanting, let em go, because they were just trying to leave. The way they had it set up was you could really only have two people standing next to each other, like a two person line, and people were trying to get out of there. This of course increased tensions and then this led to a lot of violence happening right outside the main gates as everyone was trying to leave. You’ve probably seen that video of the security guard choke slamming one guy out in the parking lot [see it here], it’s been going around. I’ve seen some other ones. You know it reminded me a lot of the pepper spray incident after Ghost closed the fest in 2011. So I’m wondering why didn’t security open up the gates and let as many people out as possible. Obviously nobody else was coming in at that point?

I’m not really sure what happened there to be honest. I heard that there was some kind of an incident and they had to wait to clear that up before letting people out. I’m not really sure. Normally either myself or Ryan are able to come and address issues like that as they come up throughout the weekend but we were just completely overwhelmed with everything over the weekend. We had zero down time. We were multitasking the entire weekend and it was just extremely stressful for us so we were not able to address all of these issues as they happened. Which was really unfortunate because [when] people are upset, it upsets us and we obviously don’t want any issues to arise at all.

I spoke with an actual off duty police officer who was attending the festival just as a fan and he was trying to video tape some of this and the security they told him that they were going to beat him down if he did not stop recording. That’s really weird to me. I can’t imagine that’s something the festival would actually endorse, telling everyone to turn off their cameras. Is that really the policy, that people should not be allowed to video tape anything like that?

No it’s not.

OK, good. I think a lot of people would probably argue that the biggest problem this year with Deathfest was the security however I would actually say that the biggest problem was the lack of communication with attendees. There was no official map or directions on how to travel between the venues, not even in the official program. There was no address given for the pre-paid parking lot entrance. There was no list of items that were banned from the festival. Nobody knew the signing schedule, or the location of the signing area, for Sunday until it was posted that morning on your Facebook page. I don’t think Broken Hope‘s signing session was even mentioned anywhere. On Thursday evening Carpathian Forest announced [here] that they would not be playing Deathfest but there was no official statement from you guys until Saturday. And then I think even that Facebook post was deleted at some point. There were other Facebook posts that were removed as well such as the photo of Down performing. Why were those posts taken down?

Just because of all the backlash that people were posting as comments. We were just completely overwhelmed. I know some things definitely should have been handled differently and we were just completely overwhelmed. You know it’s just us two dealing with this festival and it can be very overwhelming and we just were not prepared for all of this. Security, that kind of stuff, at least now we know exactly what we need to do and what we need to change. And I know some people left with a bad taste in their mouth after some of these issues and that upsets us just as much as them. All we can do is try to convince people, and assure them, that the next fest will be nothing like this. We know what has to change and we will definitely make sure that happens.

That’s really good to hear. Now the Maryland Deathfest Twitter account was reactivated shortly before the fest this year and I really hoped there would be a lot of up to the minute information coming from that and the Facebook page. These are really powerful tools that could have answered a lot of the questions I’m asking now, and they could have been answered in real time. That didn’t really happen and so I was wondering have you considered hiring a social media expert to handle this next year? Like someone that could just run your accounts for you and get information out and answer people’s questions.

Yes. That will have to be the case. Normally we have a lot more down time during the fest so we can do stuff like that but that was not the case at all this year. I had zero downtime. And I had no time to log on to Twitter and send updates. So yeah we’ll definitely have to get someone to do that kind of stuff for us.

Alright now why exactly didn’t Carpathian Forest end up playing Sunday night?

Well their singer was denied visa and one of the other guys was going to do it. The guitar player was going to do vocals but he also was not allowed over so three of the guys were there just hanging out but unable to play.

OK so why was Evoken moved from Thursday to Friday?

Because of work related stuff. It was something relating to work like they thought that they’d be playing later than that so they didn’t prepare for that and so they either would have to cancel or be switched to a different day.

OK so why did Vinterland end up playing at 10pm on Saturday instead of 5pm?

Because a couple of the guys had their flights canceled and had to fly in the next day and they didn’t even arrive until 8pm.

Oh wow. So they basically came directly from BWI [airport] and got on stage.

Yeah. Actually, quite a few bands had their flights canceled or delayed by a lot. So that was like a whole nother thing that we were dealing with all weekend. Just as an example, because of that stuff the shuttles were no longer there picking them up from the airport because their times changed. The hotels canceled their rooms because they didn’t show up when they were supposed to. It was just a whole lot of crap that resulted from that.

Is that why Tinner did not play at the SoundStage on Sunday as well?

No. Their tour fell apart or something so they didn’t end up coming. We hadn’t even heard from them in a while. We assumed everything was fine but then they wrote and said that they couldn’t play at the last minute pretty much.

Although it wasn’t really announced anywhere I thought it was really cool that you gave Speedwolf another set cause the lines had been so long Sunday and a lot of people had wanted to see them and by the time they got in they’d already played. Although their second set was during Sleep’s set. Is there any reason you put them on during that time slot instead of any other time in the festival?

That’s just when it worked out. We figured the least we could do was have them play again since a lot of people were in line before when they were playing but that just happened to be when we had that kind of time that we could slide them in during. And it’s unfortunate that it was during Sleep but it was all we could really do given the situation.

Also what happened with Golden West not being at the festival after they had been listed as a food vendor? I really like the food there a lot and I was looking for them and I never found them.

Yeah actually the girl that we have helping us, I don’t even know what to call her title exactly but, she’s like just under us, like she’s the only one helping us during the festival. She’s a manager over there and she got that together but I guess at the last minute they ended up not being able to do it. People were looking forward to having them there so that was unfortunate but they weren’t prepared for it and didn’t make it. A couple of them came for a few hours and set up in the VIP lounge and just made some tacos and stuff for some of the VIP bands that were in there but that’s it.

One other thing that I noticed about pretty much all three of the stages at the main grounds was there was a poor mix for a lot of the bands. The bass was often very high in the mix, particularly the kick drums for many of the bands playing. I actually left in the middle of Glorior Belli‘s set, a band that I was actually really excited to see, because it was pretty much unlistenable. I know some bands had their own sound guys like Pelican, who sounded great. Some of the bands due to their own sound could deal with the extra bass alright kind of like [how] Anhedonist did but you know when I’m watching a black metal band and all I hear is the bass there’s something wrong with the mix. Is there a reason so many bands were getting a mix that you’d expect of somebody like Obituary? Were there simply not enough high range speakers to counter the large amounts of bass coming out or was this something that was the sound engineer’s preference?

I don’t really know what happened there. They’re some of the same guys that have done it in past years. I don’t know what was wrong with the mix. I’ve heard conflicting stories regarding the sound as well, you know some people said that all of the bands sounded amazing and other people say that it was horrible so it goes back and forth but even any of the negative feedback, you know, we want to work to change it for the next one. So we definitely are taking all of that feedback under consideration. I mean we definitely want to make sure that bands get the best sound that they can. So even if some people thought that it wasn’t good that’s enough.

I think the main problem was it seemed like a lot of the bands were all getting the same mix regardless of what kind of band they were and that’s why [for] some of these bassier doom bands it wasn’t as much of a problem and then you see this black metal band and it should sound like a beehive or something not all kick drums and bass you know?

Right.

But these are people that have worked with you before and stuff, alright. Now this is something that actually kind of bothers me every year although this year I really noticed it a lot. Shots of the audience from the stage while major bands are playing at Deathfest. During many of the bands’ sets this year I saw photographer Aaron Pepelis of Return To The Pit shooting while standing on the stage itself with a professional camera flash repeatedly going off while the bands were playing. As a photographer myself I found this very distracting and also very unprofessional. Now I understand if you guys want a couple shots of the crowd like that during some of the bigger bands, whatever not a big deal. But I saw this going on throughout the fest at both venues. It was really frustrating and I’m wondering is it really worth the detriment to the show to be able to post a picture of Matt Pike’s coin slot on Facebook? Is this something we’re going to see more of in the future?

I’ve never heard anything about that so if it’s an issue it can definitely be addressed. That’s the first time I’ve heard someone express an issue with that to be honest.

Alright. Like I said there have been a lot of changes this year and we know that some people will bitch and moan about any change but some of them were actually very good. Which changes did you think worked the best this year at the fest?

It was great to have food there for one. I think a lot of people were happy just having more food options then there were in the past. Having a few less bands at the Sonar part made it easier for scheduling and stuff like that. Every little thing is planned you know, every little detail, so the things that come together and work out great and it’s awesome. But things that don’t are really hard for us to take.

One of the changes that I really liked was that you included the Baltimore SoundStage. I thought the venue had the best sound of all the stages at Deathfest this year and I don’t think I really heard any complaints about their security. Are there any plans to possibly work with them again or are you going to try to keep everything at one location next year so that people don’t have to go back in lines?

I think the line stuff and going back and forth could have been arranged a little better and that’s something that we definitely will work on but the whole concept behind it seemed to work out well and I did hear awesome things about the venue. The sound and everything. I wasn’t able to make it over there myself for anything but I’d be totally down to include them next year.

The biggest problem I actually had with the Baltimore SoundStage this year was the schedule. There were often several multiple hour long gaps between bands playing at the venue. And for people who had only purchased a ticket to one or multiple of the days at the SoundStage but not the main grounds, that must have been pretty frustrating. And it also would kill any momentum that say an opener band had started to build up with an audience because then you’re sitting around for two hours waiting for the next band. Why were there such large gaps in the schedule at the Baltimore SoundStage?

We just didn’t want to have certain bands playing during certain other bands’ sets at Sonar. There are some people that had tickets to only the SoundStage but not that many. Most people had both so we just were trying to avoid as much clash as possible especially with bands that are more likely for people to be into both that would hypothetically be playing at the same time.

Alright, while some of the food vendors this year were not that high quality there definitely were some great food options this year. The Zombie Barbeque was great. There was a half smoke sausage cart that was really good. Are you planning on getting more food vendors like this in the future?

Yeah, for sure.

Cool.

Yeah this was like the first time that we’ve really expanded to that whole thing. In the past couple years we’ve only had one because it was the owner of Sonar that owns a restaurant and we just kind of worked it out, a deal with him, that he would be the only food vendor to set up. They were there as well this year but obviously not the only one and I think it worked out much better that way.

OK now fans of DC Heavy Metal will know that I’m also a big fan of craft beer and instead of drinking these corporate Millers and Budweisers and whatever. I saw Flying Dog IPAs were available this year, but they were two dollars more than the corporate brands, and for a fan of dark beer like myself, I like stouts and porters, there was nothing available inside the venue, anything like that. Now Maryland actually has some great craft breweries like Heavy Seas, DuClaw, Union and even Baltimore’s own Brewer’s Art makes an actual Ozzy Osbourne beer which I’m sure would have sold well at Deathfest. Are there any plans to get some more local craft beers into the fest next year and possibly at a more competitive price point?

The reason why only those options were available is because the alcohol is completely up to the venue. We gave them suggestions many times, we should have this and this and this, but they don’t listen, they’re just going to do their own thing. We’ve had huge issues with these venue owners all weekend and that is really the icing on the cake that determines that we are definitely not doing it there again. Therefor, we’ll be pretty much doing all of this ourselves from now on. So we will have complete control over what kind of drinks will be served. So yes.

That’s great to hear. At a festival with so many of these just small, underground and independent bands it just kind of sucks to see all this corporate stuff going around when you’re looking at the beer you know when there’s so many small, underground and independent beers also in this area that could also be served there. So that’s good to hear. There were several bands that played Deathfest this year that also played shows in Baltimore during the festival such as Glorior Belli and Tragedy. Are you OK with bands doing this or are you considering having bands in the future maybe sign a contract prohibiting this or something?

We definitely do try to avoid that. The Tragedy thing was a last minute thing at the end. They asked me if it was OK and I was like “go ahead, it’s fine.” But the Glorior Belli thing was kind of a surprise. We knew about it before the fest happened but we were not very happy about it because we paid for their flights to play the fest exclusively. And then I saw they were not only doing a tour but also playing right around the corner from the fest on the same day as the fest. So yeah, we were not too stoked about that. We don’t care if bands do other shows and stuff but we just have to arrange that in the beginning. With bands playing the fest and then playing another venue in Baltimore that weekend is definitely is definitely something that we try to avoid.

The one thing from this interview that I’ve kind of heard over and over is that you and Ryan were both very overwhelmed all weekend. Do you have any ideas yet of what you’re going to do so maybe it’s a more manageable process next year so you guys aren’t just constantly overwhelmed?

Yes. A lot of it had to do with, we put too much faith in the new guys being able to help us out. They told us all along that they’d be able to like get us this and help us get this and etcetera. And they didn’t. All of that fell through so we were just not prepared for that. We put too much trust in them being able to make that stuff happen. So now we know that we cannot do that at all. We just have to take all the matters in our own hands and do things our way and not rely on anyone else to get things done. The specifics are yet to be determined because we’re still in full recovery mode right now but very soon we will start getting the gears in motion to plan for a better fest next year.

That’s great. Well thanks for answering all my questions here Evan. I really do appreciate you and Ryan Taylor bringing so many great bands to the area every Memorial Day weekend. So my last question for you is: when will you start announcing bands and a new location for next year’s fest?

Pretty much as soon as we have it confirmed. We don’t know. We’re going to start working on it pretty much immediately but we won’t announce anything until something is set in stone and we’re completely sure about it, and happy with it, so I don’t know when that will be. Regarding the bands, as many people know, we start booking pretty much immediately after this year’s fest so we definitely will start booking bands very shortly here and probably make our first group of announcements within a few months or so.

Alright cool, sounds good. Well thanks a lot for answering these questions. I know a lot of them weren’t the easiest and you’ve been really honest here and that’s awesome. I hope that you and Ryan do have a good little bit of time off. Actually relax and maybe get off your feet and have a couple beers or something you know?

Yes. That would be nice.

Alright well thanks a lot and I’ll be at the fest next year. Can’t wait for MDF XII.

Cool. We’re just stoked to basically now completely separate ourselves from a venue and everything and just doing… SoundStage thing is one thing but for the main festival grounds we’re just going to do it our own way and this will give us the freedom to do things exactly the way that we want. Every little thing can be premeditated and we can follow up on it and make sure that that’s the way it goes. I’m stoked to start a new chapter and I think it’ll be much better.

That’s great. Alright well thanks a lot and I’ll talk to you sometime soon.

Bye.

Take it easy.